Support Orbiter Fly-by Camera (and other mods) does not work

[David Knisely]

One of my chief complaints about software is insufficient documentation. With ORBITER, it has repeatedly forced me to either come here begging for help, or just giving up on installing any add-ons and suffering like a kid outside a locked candy store when I browse this site. I have two examples (but unfortunately, there are many many more). The first is the Fly-By Camera add-on. There is next to no documentation other than some cryptic lines in a picture file hinting at what might be done. There is no way to know where each and every file is supposed to be sitting. I put the zip file in the main ORBITER directory and unzipped it using WinXP's default application for these files. It created a directory with sub-directories AND THAT IS IT. I created the "camera" using the scenerio editor, but there is not any way to be certain that I did so correctly because (you guessed it) there is not enough documentation on exactly how to do this. In short, I am once again dead in the water (unless there is some sort of "add-on" which (IF I can manage to get it installed), does all the file moving and configuration for me). I could play "hunt and peck" for several hours using various configuration schemes and putting the files in various possible locations, but that takes hours (and really should not be necessary).

Another add-on that I can't get to say "boo" is the Babylon 5 Thunderbolt Star Fury. Once again, the "documentation" tells me to put the zip file into the main Orbiter directory and unzip it. THAT IS IT. It just creates a directory with subdirectories that contain files. It does not put the files where they should be, so nothing happens. No vessel appears in the list, no scenarios appear, nadda, zip.... just more questions and a lot more frustration. Where do the .ini files go? Do I have to create a new directory in some other directory? I got a *few* add-ons to work by sort of "saturation bombing" of files, putting copies of the files in multiple directories where I thought they might possibly belong so as to 'cover all the bases', but sometimes, this tact just didn't work. It really should not be necessary anyway, as the documentation should carefully outline each step that needs to be taken.

For all add-on developers: Please, I beg of you, PUT IN FULL DOCUMENTATION FOR DUMMIES!! I need to know *exactly* where each and every single file needs to go. I need to know if there is a specific order that needs to be followed, and if there is something that needs to be installed prior to the given add-on. You guys clearly know something I don't. How about spending just a teeny tiny little bit more time at the text editor to make it easier on those of us who just want to fly the darn thing.

Thank you.

 

[computerex]

Hello there. I would have thought installing the fly-by add-on was simple. But I am not famous for creating add-on manuals rich in detail . The image file you speak of states:

"Extract package in orbiter's root directory, preserving directory structure. Open an orbiter session, and create a 'camera' vessel using the scenario editor".

That seems simple enough to me, a basic procedure anyone using a computer should know, copying/moving files from one folder to another.

 

[Artlav]

It sounds like what you do is create some directory in Orbiter one, and put add-on files there. That's not what must be done.

Note that ALL the directories in the add-on zip files have the same names as some directories in Orbiter root. THAT what is meant by unzip into the root directory - not somewhere, but content of the zip merged with content of the root.

 

[Face]

It sounds like what you do is create some directory in Orbiter one, and put add-on files there. That's not what must be done.

Note that ALL the directories in the add-on zip files have the same names as some directories in Orbiter root. THAT what is meant by unzip into the root directory - not somewhere, but content of the zip merged with content of the root.

I think you got it right. Many addons' ZIPs contain path structures similar to this:

MyNewAddon
 |
 + Meshes
 |   |
 |   + someMeshFile
 |
 + Config
      |
      + someCFGFile

instead of this:

Meshes
    |
    + someMeshFile
  
Config
    |
    + someCFGFile

Therefore newbies can easily be confused by unzipping such archives into the root dir, because all they'll get is another directory. They don't know that you just have to move the subdirs back into the root.

regards,
Face

 

[2552]

I've never had to install every file of an addon one at a time before, even when just starting out with Orbiter. As said above, it looks like you unzip the zip file, and out comes a folder that has the correct directory structure in it, but because it's in a separate folder, it isn't actually installed. Just go into the folder, select all (Ctrl+A), cut, go back to the main Orbiter folder and paste.

(unless there is some sort of "add-on" which (IF I can manage to get it installed), does all the file moving and configuration for me)

That would be JSGME. It will manage your addon installs and let you enable and disable any addon at any time. It won't edit config files for you though. It has a standard, simple installer. Just install it to your Orbiter folder, then run the JSGME.exe it installs to let it make a MODS folder in the Orbiter folder. This is where your addons go. Each addon gets its own folder inside the MODS folder, and inside that folder goes the addon's files. Just make sure the files weren't inside another folder first, as mentioned above, or it won't work. If they are in another folder in the zip file, you can just copy that folder directly into the MODS folder and it will work. Then if you still have JSGME open, press F5 to refresh the addon list, and select and enable the addons you want. They will be installed to Orbiter and work.

 

[David413]

For all add-on developers: Please, I beg of you, PUT IN FULL DOCUMENTATION FOR DUMMIES!! I need to know *exactly* where each and every single file needs to go. I need to know if there is a specific order that needs to be followed, and if there is something that needs to be installed prior to the given add-on. You guys clearly know something I don't. How about spending just a teeny tiny little bit more time at the text editor to make it easier on those of us who just want to fly the darn thing.

Thank you.

My chief complaint with this post is that I have spent hours working on documentation for my add-ons, and I still find that most of the posts (and PMs, and Emails) I receive from users with complaints are resolved by me pointing out the page number in the documentation for them to solve their problem. At this point, I've given up spending my time creating elaborate documentation since no one seems to read it. Your tone suggests that somehow we (add-on developers) owe you something. I submit that you get what you pay for. I remember you from the M6 forum, and your tone still suggests that you feel entitled to a pain-free and effortless experience. I suggest that you stick with the basic Orbiter, once you've mastered that, then you might consider a venture into the realm of add-ons. A better understanding of the basic Orbiter installation and file management scheme might help you understand where the various files included in an add-on are meant to be placed, and then unzipping the files and sorting out their placement might be easier for you.

 

[Kaito]

What I do (when i didn't have JSGME) was i had the zip file right on my desktop, and I used windows XP default extractor to extract to the orbiter directory (where orbiter.exe is located). That puts all the files where they need to be. JSGME has been nice (mainly because I can remove the add-ons at will), but orbiter runs off a simple folder structure...if you cant navigate that, GTFO the computer

 

[David Knisely]

Hello there. I would have thought installing the fly-by add-on was simple. But I am not famous for creating add-on manuals rich in detail . The image file you speak of states:

"Extract package in orbiter's root directory, preserving directory structure. Open an orbiter session, and create a 'camera' vessel using the scenario editor".

That seems simple enough to me, a basic procedure anyone using a computer should know, copying/moving files from one folder to another.
In your case, that doesn't seem to be the problem.

I think I know where you went wrong. You probably did not activate the module under the module's tab. If that is indeed what went wrong, then I am sorry, I should have said so inside the 'documentation'. However, I will not be as arrogant as to take all the blame mind you. If you had read the documentation that comes with Orbiter, you would have known that you needed to activate the module in order for the add-on to work properly. Add-ons are created/maintained by people of the community. These people are not paid except by the gratitude they receive from people who enjoy their work. What I am saying is, don't expect commercial-grade quality...

Nope, you don't really deserve much in the way of any blame, as the problem was with Windows and the way I interpreted what it was actually doing. It makes a directory change when I unzipped the file, creating a new directory with the same name as the zip file and putting the unzipped sub directories and files there (even if I didn't want it to). I backed up and manually ordered Windows to unzip in the Orbiter directory without creating any additional directory (just in the Orbiter main directory). Once that happened, the files went where they were supposed to and the "camera" appeared in the list of vessels in the scenario editor, so all is well. I suppose that this automatic creation of a directory for zip files trait of Windows is a useful one sometimes, but in this case, it created a headache, as I thought it was unzipping into the Orbiter directory when it really wasn't. Thanks for the help (now if I can just figure out where those .ini files go for the Thunderbolt.).

 

[garyw]

Whenever I have a question about an addon I'll make a point of checking the docs and mentioning in the question that I have done so!

For example, a little while back I was having problems with Axial MFD. The answer was in the docs which I didn't read at first but I did check BEFORE posting a question on it.

 

[David Knisely]

Whenever I have a question about an addon I'll make a point of checking the docs and mentioning in the question that I have done so!

For example, a little while back I was having problems with Axial MFD. The answer was in the docs which I didn't read at first but I did check BEFORE posting a question on it.

I did read the documents, but that wasn't the problem. The problem was that I didn't see that Windows was actually putting the files in a location (a "new" unnecessary directory it had created for the zip file) which I did not want (i.e. it should have put them in the actual Orbiter main directory). I always read the documentation, but in this case, it wouldn't have mattered. WinXP "assumes" that I want a directory created for the zip file's contents itself when it does the decompression, and I had assumed that Windows knew what it was doing by creating the zip file subdirectory in Orbiter's main directory. Up until now, I have been fighting this, picking out the files and trying to find the right directories where each should go, but now, it appears that I have a way around the problem by just remembering what Windows expansion routine does by default. I have gotten the B5 Thunderbolt to work now as well, although for some reason, the scenario editor can't save a location other than on-Earth. Again thanks for the understanding (and hopefully, the headaches will pass).

 

[n122vu]

I did read the documents, but that wasn't the problem. The problem was that I didn't see that Windows was actually putting the files in a location (a "new" unnecessary directory it had created for the zip file) which I did not want (i.e. it should have put them in the actual Orbiter main directory). I always read the documentation, but in this case, it wouldn't have mattered. WinXP "assumes" that I want a directory created for the zip file's contents itself when it does the decompression, and I had assumed that Windows knew what it was doing by creating the zip file subdirectory in Orbiter's main directory. Up until now, I have been fighting this, picking out the files and trying to find the right directories where each should go, but now, it appears that I have a way around the problem by just remembering what Windows expansion routine does by default. I have gotten the B5 Thunderbolt to work now as well, although for some reason, the scenario editor can't save a location other than on-Earth. Again thanks for the understanding (and hopefully, the headaches will pass).

David,

This is routine behavior for most compression tools. There is a 'default' target for extraction of selected files. The line "Extract the package in Orbiter's root directory" in the readme is meant to tell you to change the target to C:\Orbiter or wherever you have it installed (which it sounds like you figured out how to do). This behavior is not restricted to the Windows tool alone.

[two cents]
Although computerex could have specified "change the default extraction target that the compression tool wants to extract the items to so that it points to the Orbiter root directory," it is not the responsibility of the addon maker to instruct users how to use third party tools, whether part of Windows or another tool. Download and extraction of these .zip and .rar files is free, and it is assumed the end user is familiar with using such tools to extract the files properly.

Perhaps there should be a disclaimer on the Recommended Addons page that states "Note: To install most addons, you will require some knowledge of using file compression tools such as WinZip, WinRAR, or Windows Compressed Folders, to extract files from archives into the proper directories." Not that Tex should be responsible for instructing users how to use them, but a little forewarning might ease the number of questions or help others ask the right ones.
[\two cents]

 

[David Knisely]

David,

This is routine behavior for most compression tools. There is a 'default' target for extraction of selected files. The line "Extract the package in Orbiter's root directory" in the readme is meant to tell you to change the target to C:\Orbiter or wherever you have it installed (which it sounds like you figured out how to do). This behavior is not restricted to the Windows tool alone.

[two cents]
Although computerex could have specified "change the default extraction target that the compression tool wants to extract the items to so that it points to the Orbiter root directory," it is not the responsibility of the addon maker to instruct users how to use third party tools, whether part of Windows or another tool. Download and extraction of these .zip and .rar files is free, and it is assumed the end user is familiar with using such tools to extract the files properly.

Perhaps there should be a disclaimer on the Recommended Addons page that states "Note: To install most addons, you will require some knowledge of using file compression tools such as WinZip, WinRAR, or Windows Compressed Folders, to extract files from archives into the proper directories." Not that Tex should be responsible for instructing users how to use them, but a little forewarning might ease the number of questions or help others ask the right ones.
[\two cents]

Yes, my frustration showed up rather loudly in my original posting, as I have been banging my head against the "default" wall for months without realizing that WinXP's decompression routine was adding in something (the zip file sub directory) that I thought was proper but should never have been used. I had once used some other zipping and unzipping software (7-zip), but when Windows started doing the work on its own, I decided I didn't need that any more and assumed Windows would do it right (first mistake). It does, but it makes an assumption that may not work in my favor with some open-source software. Apparently, there are some decompression tools that do not put in a default directory (I think WinZip is among them), so I might have been better off using them instead. However, now that I am aware of exactly what Windows did, I should be OK.

There are still some add-ons which simply don't work under the most current version of Orbiter, so I suppose in some cases, there is little to do but avoid them or try them and delete them if they don't run. When doing the Fireball XL-5 add-on, despite it being created for an earlier version of Orbiter, it worked quite well in the current version. However, for some reason, the "Particles" add-on that supposedly can put smoke into XL-5 does not work, even after repeated tries, so while I can fly XL-5, it doesn't put out a trail. The documentation doesn't tell me quite enough to determine whether I am doing something wrong or whether it just won't work under the current version. I may try again when I don't have much to do, but I think I will concentrate more on the add-ons that have version dates somewhat closer to the current one. Thanks for your patience.