Updates Orion (MPCV) Updates and Discussion

[Orbinaut Pete]

I really don't know where this "ATV for SM" stuff comes from. Orion's service module has been floating around for years now. Are we supposed to believe that after some $5 billion, the Orion SM is so fuzzy and undefined that they're seriously looking at trying to bolt an ATV SM onto it?

The desire to use the ATV SM for Orion isn't really a technical one - it has to do with NASA wanting more international collaboration (remember, international collaboration = project harder to cancel).

In my opinion, it would be interesting to see whether the ATV SM could be made into a nice lunar lander.

It feels like one of those "people are watching, look busy" tests. Like Ares-IX, which had no validity whatsoever, especially not for nearly half a billion dollars.

No, it is not one of those tests. EFT-1 will test a variety of essential Orion systems, with one of the main ones being a high-velocity re-entry.

Also, note how they plan to launch the test spacecraft on a Delta IV Heavy, rather than an Atlas V...

Atlas V will eventually be man-rated... maybe they don't want people to get the wrong idea about which vehicle "can" and "can't" lift Orion.

They are launching on a Delta IV because a Atlas V will not provide enough delta-V for a high velocity re-entry. Besides, the Emergency Detection System (EDS) being developed for the commercial crew effort will be common to both the Atlas V and the Delta IV.

 

[T.Neo]

The desire to use the ATV SM for Orion isn't really a technical one - it has to do with NASA wanting more international collaboration (remember, international collaboration = project harder to cancel).

Bad idea if technical issues take a back seat and project capability is compromised.

In my opinion, it would be interesting to see whether the ATV SM could be made into a nice lunar lander.

A miniature space station... a component of a manned spacecraft... sure. But a lunar lander? How would that be achieved?

Maybe an ATV-derived refrigerator would be a better bet, considering that the ATV hasn't got nearly enough thrust to take off from the Moon, and likely neither nearly enough dV to even execute a lunar descent?

No, it is not one of those tests. EFT-1 will test a variety of essential Orion systems, with one of the main ones being a high-velocity re-entry.

Don't you wonder why such a test is being performed now, rather than later with a complete spacecraft?

Single test with complete system- one system, one launch. Less cost, more "bang for your buck".

Early test with incomplete system- not all systems tested, testing regimen incomplete. Inefficient but allows you to have something to show for yourself.

There were Apollo test flights that tested out the TPS on a high-velocity reentry. They also tested out the SM and SPS. There was no need to waste launches testing an incomplete system.

But maybe nowdays NASA personnel are just so incompetent that they're scared of massive design changes occuring due to an inability to design adequate heatshields?

They are launching on a Delta IV because a Atlas V will not provide enough delta-V for a high velocity re-entry.

Really? I thought Atlas V had roughly superior LEO payload capability to the Delta IV. Does this not correlate to payload capability for a suborbital reentry test?

Besides, the Emergency Detection System (EDS) being developed for the commercial crew effort will be common to both the Atlas V and the Delta IV.

Delta will be more difficult to human-rate than Atlas. Atlas uses propulsion elements that were designed to be human-rated (derived from RD-170). Delta IV uses the RS-68, to which several alterations would need to be conducted for human-rating.

 

[orb]

NASA:

• Florida Governor Tours Orion Facilities:

  Florida Gov. Rick Scott got a firsthand look Oct. 18 at the facilities NASA's Kennedy Space Center will use to assemble and process the Orion spacecraft for launch on deep space missions.
  
  "This is the future," Scott said. "We always have to look at all the changes and say, 'Look, we have a great opportunity.' We're going to continue to make things happen here."
  
  The governor, along with Lt. Gov. Jennifer Carroll and state Cabinet officers Jeff Atwater, chief financial officer, and Adam Putnam, Agriculture commissioner, toured the Operations and Checkout Building and visited the Vehicle Assembly Building as well.
  
  

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  Florida funded part of the refurbishment of the high bay at the Operations and Checkout Building so the Orion spacecraft can be assembled there. Scott got a close-up look at an Orion test article used for a launch abort system test in New Mexico in 2010.
  
  A test flight without astronauts is scheduled for 2017, with the Orion flying on the first Space Launch System heavy-lift rocket, or SLS. A flight with astronauts would follow in 2021on the SLS.
  
  With those complete, the stage would be set to dispatch crews into deep space to destinations such as an asteroid, the moon and eventually Mars.
  
  "I think we have a clear path forward," said Robert Cabana, Kennedy Center's director, pointing out some of the modifications that recently have taken place at some of the center's better-known facilities, including Launch Pad 39B and the rest of the Operations and Checkout Building.
  
  {...}

  
  
  
• Orion Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle Phase 1 Drop Test:

  Engineers conducted the first test as part of Phase 1 of the Orion MPCV boilerplate test article at NASA's Langley Research Center, on Oct. 18. The 18,000-pound (8,165 kg) test article -- representative of the Orion Crew Module -- was drop tested at a 43-degree relative pitch angle and a 30-degree roll angle and traveled at 27 mph (43 kph) horizontal velocity before splashing down in the Hydro Impact Basin.
  
  

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  These test conditions represent an off-nominal splashdown following an ascent abort scenario and include predictions of rough seas.
  
  As predicted through analytical simulations, the capsule pitched forward and came to rest in a Stable 2 (upside down) position during the test.
  
  "It is important to understand the different scenarios in contingency water landings," said project manager Lynn Bowman. "This is why we have a crew module up-righting system designed for the actual flight vehicle."
  
  {...}

 

[orb]

Video of the MPCV drop test

Here's video from the drop test.

 

[orb]

NASA:

10.31.11​

What Goes Up Must Come Down

NASA's Langley Research Center completed another successful test of the Orion spacecraft's landing capabilities in their Hydro Impact Basin.

While workers prepared the 18,000-pound (8,165 kg) Orion Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle to take a dive into the 115-feet-long, 90-feet-wide, 20-feet-deep water basin (35.1 x 27.4 x 6.1 meters), media sat inside a conference room overlooking the action.

Langley offered experts to explain the process and importance of the test.

"It was the second in a series of four that would help predict conditions for a safe water landing," said Dave Bowles, the head of Langley's Space Exploration Directorate.

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Click on image to enlarge​

Oct. 27, 2011, Orion Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle (MPCV) water landing drop test at the Hydro Impact Basin (HIB) at NASA's Langley Research Center.​

Credit: NASA/Sean Smith​

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Following this round of testing, a new Orion capsule will be delivered to Langley for another series of tests that will capture additional data using sensors. The new vehicle more closely resembles the capsule that will eventually carry astronauts into space.

"What goes up must come down," Bowles said to the group.

Members of the media grabbed hard hats on their way downstairs to the Gantry floor to witness the drop up close.

More questions followed for the Langley experts until all were asked to step back in preparation for the capsule to be raised into position for the drop. Reporters also wanted to know how everyone played a part.

Lynn Bowman, the manager of Orion's SPLASH project, spoke about preparation and testing. Steve Gayle, the principal investigator for Orion, talked about the architecture of the boilerplate test article (BTA).

A two-minute warning sounded as people and their cameras grew still and focused on the test capsule.

Finally, a countdown from 15 seconds led into the lowest water basin drop in this series of tests. From a 17-degree angle and a 30-degree roll, the capsule splashed into the basin with a bounce before it was caught by the basin's arresting system of foam blocks and straps.

"From that angle, the BTA responded as the analysts predicted it would," Bowman said.

After the collar ceased swinging about 20 minutes later, the capsule was retrieved from the pool by a crane, placed onto a platform and transported to a nearby building where it will remain until its next scheduled test on November 8.

{...}

 

[orb]

NASASpaceflight: NASA managers approve EFT-1 flight as Orion pushes for 2013 orbital debut:

As managers work on finalizing the exploration roadmap for their new flagship vehicles, one of the first pieces in the puzzle – the debut of the Orion crew vehicle in space – has been given final approval by NASA. The Exploration Test Flight (EFT-1) will see Orion launched by a Della IV-Heavy from Cape Canaveral in the latter part of 2013.

{...}

 

[orb]

NASA:
NASA Proposes Orion Spacecraft Test Flight In 2014
Agency Moves to Implement Deep Space Exploration Plan

Nov. 08, 2011

NASA plans to add an unmanned flight test of the Orion spacecraft in early 2014 to its contract with Lockheed Martin Space Systems for the multi-purpose crew vehicle's design, development, test and evaluation. This test supports the new Space Launch System (SLS) that will take astronauts farther into space than ever before, create U.S. jobs, and provide the cornerstone for America's future human spaceflight efforts.

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Click on image to enlarge​

The Orion MPCV ground test vehicle is prepared for the Launch Abort Vehicle Configuration Test at Lockheed Martin’s facilities in Denver, Colo.​

Credit: NASA​

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"President Obama and Congress have laid out an ambitious space exploration plan, and NASA is moving out quickly to implement it," NASA Associate Administrator for Communications David Weaver said. "This flight test will provide invaluable data to support the deep space exploration missions this nation is embarking upon."

This Exploration Flight Test, or EFT-1, will fly two orbits to a high-apogee, with a high-energy re-entry through Earth's atmosphere. Orion will make a water landing and be recovered using operations planned for future human exploration missions. The test mission will be launched from Cape Canaveral, Fla., to acquire critical re-entry flight performance data and demonstrate early integration capabilities that benefit the Orion, SLS, and 21st Century Ground Systems programs. The agency has posted a synopsis explaining its intention on NASA's procurement website.

"The entry part of the test will produce data needed to develop a spacecraft capable of surviving speeds greater than 20,000 mph and safely return astronauts from beyond Earth orbit," Associate Administrator for Human Exploration and Operations William Gerstenmaier said. "This test is very important to the detailed design process in terms of the data we expect to receive."

NASA also intends to release several competitive solicitations to industry in the near future. One solicitation will request proposals for the design, development, test and evaluation of a new advanced liquid or solid booster capability for the SLS. Another future contract NASA intends to compete will be for the development of spacecraft, and payload adaptors and fairings for crew and cargo missions. The competition and award dates for these will be determined as missions are identified.

NASA is developing the Orion spacecraft to launch astronauts to asteroids, the moon, Mars and other destinations atop SLS, the agency's new heavy launch vehicle. An early orbital flight test such as EFT-1 will provide data needed to influence design decisions and serve as a pathfinder to validate innovative new approaches to space systems development. The goal is to reduce the cost and schedule risks of exploration missions.

{...}



NASA Press Release: RELEASE : 11-376 - NASA Proposes Orion Spacecraft Test Flight In 2014

Florida Today - The Flame Trench: NASA Aims For 2014 Orion Test Flight At Cape

Parabolic Arc: NASA Sets Unmanned Orion Flight Test for Early 2014

Aviation Week: NASA Plans Unmanned Orion Flight In 2014

 

[Codz]

Glad that they are making progress.

 

[T.Neo]

"President Obama and Congress have laid out an ambitious space exploration plan, and NASA is moving out quickly to implement it,"

Ambitious? They call this space exploration plan ambitious? How does it qualify for such a adjective?

 

[Codz]

Ambitious? They call this space exploration plan ambitious? How does it qualify for such a adjective?

It doesn't involve screwing around in LEO for 25 years.

 

[Orbinaut Pete]

Check out this newly released EFT-1 animation:

[ame="http://vimeo.com/31799422"]Orion Exploration Flight Test 1 - 2014 on Vimeo[/ame]

Can't wait to see this fly! :thumbup:

 

[Urwumpe]

It doesn't involve screwing around in LEO for 25 years.

OK, then tell me, what did we do in LEO for the past 39 years (we had not been on the moon since 1972), and what will this lackluster program do in the same time, if it gets the funding and the lack of problems, that it will not get in reality.

The Space shuttle did more missions in a single year, than the SLS will do in ten.

 

[Codz]

The Space shuttle did more missions in a single year, than the SLS will do in ten.

Let's not forget the Space Shuttle also had a long waiting period. It wasn't perfect and it killed 14 people. It also accomplished some great things(Hubble,ISS,Galileo,etc.) but it's time to move on. As long as SLS is what NASA uses I support them 100%.

 

[T.Neo]

Check out this newly released EFT-1 animation:

It is just an animation, animations are cheap.

The Space shuttle did more missions in a single year, than the SLS will do in ten.

SLS will not even fly 8-9 times in a decade? Where did you hear that? :blink:

I thought I read that the worst case scenario would be at least a single flight per year...

 

[N_Molson]

The Space shuttle did more missions in a single year, than the SLS will do in ten.

I won't fight on that again, but there will be no progress saying again and again "Space Shuttle was an incredible spacecraft, it flew 135 times, was re-usable, had a robotic arm & a payload bay, etc...". All of that is true, but now it is time to move on and see farther. Let the "commercial spacecrafts" take care of LEO & ISS resupplying, it's what the CCT program was designed for.

 

[T.Neo]

All of that is true, but now it is time to move on and see farther.

Why can't we move on and see further, to a reusable, RMS & payload bay equipped spacecraft that does it better than the Shuttle did?

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Check out this newly released EFT-1 animation:

Orion Exploration Flight Test 1 - 2014 on Vimeo

Can't wait to see this fly! :thumbup:

What's the LV? It appears to be a Delta 4, but I'm not sure...

 

[T.Neo]

What's the LV? It appears to be a Delta 4, but I'm not sure...

It's the Delta IV Heavy.

 

[Urwumpe]

It is just an animation, animations are cheap.



SLS will not even fly 8-9 times in a decade? Where did you hear that? :blink:

I thought I read that the worst case scenario would be at least a single flight per year...

As far as the funding goes, it is maximal one launch per year. Unless funding dramatically changes, it will not become two per year.

 

[N_Molson]

Why can't we move on and see further, to a reusable, RMS & payload bay equipped spacecraft that does it better than the Shuttle did?

Because this is the XR2 or DG-IV and there won't be such kind of technology before a good 200 years.