News Osama Bin Laden Killed (American politics discussion)

[Urwumpe]

Can anybody present hard evidence that Osama is guilty of 911?

Not just government claims, but actual hard evidence that cannot be mistaken.

Of course, this isn't hard evidence, but he admitted himself to be responsible for it.

Of course, such testimony means that you need to check if he is really responsible or just claiming so, to turn it into something solid.

But how much do we really know of Bin Laden?

 

[garyw]

Moderator Note: This thread has been reopened.

The O-F staff understand that this is a very emotive thread but remind you of the rules in place on this multinational and mutlicultural forum; Please keep it respectful and do not bash religions or other countries.

 

[deltawing777]

Can anybody present hard evidence that Osama is guilty of 911?

Not just government claims, but actual hard evidence that cannot be mistaken.

Yes in his own words he said it himself

 

[Mister Kite]

I'd prefer him being caught alive, put on trial and sentenced. But I guess the team on the ground was not in a position to safely capture him...

Something tells me it would have been very difficult to get him alive.

Osama Bin Laden: "I am a person who loves death. The Americans love life. I will engage them and fight. I will not surrender. If I am to die, I would like to be killed by the bullet."

 

[N_Molson]

The fact is that on every video on which he was, he always had an AK-47 at hand's reach. Which is understandable when you are the most researched man on the planet.

 

[deltawing777]

Something tells me it would have been very difficult to get him alive.

Osama Bin Laden: "I am a person who loves death. The Americans love life. I will engage them and fight. I will not surrender. If I am to die, I would like to be killed by the bullet."

And that is exactly what he got. A bullet and death :tiphat:

 

[Urwumpe]

Something tells me it would have been very difficult to get him alive.

Osama Bin Laden: "I am a person who loves death. The Americans love life. I will engage them and fight. I will not surrender. If I am to die, I would like to be killed by the bullet."

Yes. But that doesn't mean that it does not need to be done. You would also find it pretty disturbing, if you would arrest a suicide bomber and explode his bomb vest with him on a distant army range, because he wanted to die that way? His opinion is actually not even asked there.

If justice calls for it, he could die as old man in prison, a shadow of his former self. If it is needed for justice, he could be even kept alive against his own will. If there wouldn't have been deadly incompetence in German prison one day, the RAF would still by rotting there instead of having been able to commit suicide and their followers believing still that they have been killed by the German police.

I think the famous last words should belong to a Bush. Not George or George Walker, but Wilhelm Busch.

http://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Max_und_Moritz/Letzter_Streich

 

[Ark]

Can we leave Afghanistan now?

That was our excuse for invading and occupying, right? To "bring Osama Bin Laden and his followers to justice"? Not "Dismantle existing government and install corrupt puppet backed by US soldiers"?

We no longer even have that thin excuse to continue the occupation. It's time to pack up and leave the Afghans to their thousand-year-old unchanged existence.

 

[N_Molson]

... and direct the funding to NASA. Please !

 

[Urwumpe]

... and direct the funding to NASA. Please !

Funding goes to the "Society for the development of new useless combat aircraft"

 

[Ark]

It is pretty funny that for all the countless billions spent on smart ordinance and unmanned drones, our most wanted target was brought down by SEAL Team 6 and a few helicopters.

 

[Ghostrider]

Again, never send a machine to do a human's job. War is inhumane, but unfortunately also very, very human.

 

[JEL]

That's called hiding in plain sight. The government was not necessarily aware of it, just some corrupt or sympathetic general lending his place and keeping the mouth shut. And nobody around even dreamed that this bearded man glimpsed in that building could be THAT man.

Of course, so or not so we will never know.
Such stuff is to be declassified 99 years later, good luck living till then.

Remembering Nixon, Reagan, Even Carter and Clinton, I really do think it's possible that Bush is hiding something in this case.

Of course, this isn't hard evidence, but he admitted himself to be responsible for it.

Of course, such testimony means that you need to check if he is really responsible or just claiming so, to turn it into something solid.

But how much do we really know of Bin Laden?

Ok, I usually find you very trust-worthy and knowledgeable urwumpe, and I have no contradictory evidence myself.
But I, myself, just haven't ever heard or seen Osama assume responsibility for 911, although that could just be because I missed it along the way.
If anybody has got a link to a video where he's clear about this I would certainly like to see it, just to get another piece of the puzzle put in it's correct place.

I've seen many videos and news-reports claiming all sorts of things about him, and perhaps it's a flaw in me but I don't find the news too trust-worthy in many cases and don't see why it should be different in this one.
And even if the news are reporting what they know correctly and fairly, then the government might still be keeping things from the public that would paint a different picture. Maybe a more grey one, with guilt being more evenly spread on both sides. The war-on-terror includes a much too long list of western wrong-doings; Guantanamo, abu-ghraib and other secret CIA prisons, water-boarding torture (sanctified by the Bush-administration), soldiers executing civilians in Iraq, erroneous airforce bombings of weddings and caravans and other completely non-military targets. The full picture includes all that.

At any rate, a proper court-preceding would have been so much better than just killing the suspect. That's what any good justice-system is built upon; trial by jury, not by soldier with gun.

Well, we'll see in a few days how reactions will be, when we have had more time to reflect and think and become more sober about it all. It's taken us 10 years to get here after all, so it won't be over in 12 hours for sure.

For what it's worth; my personal sympathies go to all innocent victims, on both sides of the border. It does, after all, take 2 to tango.

 

[Urwumpe]

JEL: First of all, don't praise the Urwumpe before the end of the thread.

Second: He denied responsibility until 2004, when he took the responsibility for it for the first time. Since then, he no longer denied it. He also made a statement before 2001, about letting towers in the USA burn in response of towers burning in Lebanon.

 

[Notebook]

If justice calls for it, he could die as old man in prison, a shadow of his former self. If it is needed for justice, he could be even kept alive against his own will. If there wouldn't have been deadly incompetence in German prison one day, the RAF would still by rotting there instead of having been able to commit suicide and their followers believing still that they have been killed by the German police.

Don't get this Urwumpe, a reference to Rudolf Hess?

N.

 

[Urwumpe]

Don't get this Urwumpe, a reference to Rudolf Hess?

No, "Operation Feuerzauber" and Stammheim.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa_Flight_181"]Lufthansa Flight 181 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[Artlav]

No, "Operation Feuerzauber" and Stammheim.

Lufthansa Flight 181 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now it makes sense, there is other RAF than the Royal Air Force.

 

[T.Neo]

In South Africa, there is also the Road Accident Fund.

You don't see them flying Spitfires or Eurofighters too often.

 

[Notebook]

Understood; didn't get the Red Army Faction (RAF)connection.

N.

 

[Urwumpe]

Now it makes sense, there is other RAF than the Royal Air Force.

Yeah, the Red Army Fraction, opponent in Germany's own war against terror back then. Allied with Palestine groups and got supported by the GDR, both made them pretty nasty.