PSA: English Grammar MEGA THREAD (All Your Grammar Are Belong To Us)

[Orbinaut Pete]

Off-topic, but I hate incorrect use of apostrophes in acronyms, for example: "The crew performed two EVA's" - it's "EVAs"! :lol:

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EDIT:

Oh, and another thing, why do the BBC have to write "ESA" as "Esa" - it looks so stupid, nobody writes it like that!

 

[Lucy]

Off-topic, but I hate incorrect use of apostrophes in acronyms, for example: "The crew performed two EVA's" - it's "EVAs"! :lol:

Yes, the use of apostrophes in plurals is covered in the video (I think).

I see misplaced apostrophes in signs all over town.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/journalism/apps/tutor/html/apostrophes/Content.html

This is a good place to start - ignore the bit at the start about some application the content isn't actually being rendered through.

A further PSA:

Could have -> could've;
Should have -> should've;
Would have -> would've;

And so on.

"Could of" / "Should of" / "Would of" makes no sense and is not correct.

 

[orb]

Off-topic, but I hate incorrect use of apostrophes in acronyms

This isn't off-topic - EVA's is possessive and EVAs are plural. If I write more than one PM, I write PMs and not PM's.

 

[JonnyBGoode]

One of my peeves: THEN vs. THAN. It drives me crazy when someone writes something like, "I like Bill better then I like Steve," or "I'm going to the library than to the store." :facepalm: I see this more and more these days.

THAN is for comparison. I like this better THAN I like that. He is taller THAN I am. Other THAN ten dollars in his pocket, he had no money.

THEN is used for a sequence of events. We went to see grandma, THEN we all went out for ice cream. When you get done with mowing the lawn, THEN come see me. If you don't eat all your meat, THEN you can't have any pudding.

THEN and THAN do NOT sound the same. (And neither of them sound like THIN.) THEN has a short e sound, like peg or hen or led. THAN has a short a sound like that, cat, plan or can.

 

[Pyromaniac605]

You may not believe that it matters, and you are not alone in that opinion. However there are a few of us who really do care about taking the time to express your opinions in the clearest way possible, and using proper sentence structure, with correct spelling and punctuation, is the best way to do that.

I said Hooray, that implies I like that we are using proper English, do you see me not using proper English?

Darren

 

[Lucy]

I am sorry. The [sarcasm] BBcode has yet to be properly implemented.

 

[SiberianTiger]

This isn't off-topic - EVA's is possessive and EVAs are plural. If I write more than one PM, I write PMs and not PM's.

You've just debunked a misconception I had.

---------- Post added at 10:38 ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 ----------

BTW, is it best to say "a spacecraft on a rocket" or "a spacecraft atop a rocket"?

 

[Lucy]

BTW, is it best to say "a spacecraft on a rocket" or "a spacecraft atop a rocket"?

Either is fine, though "Atop" is more poetic (and slightly more accurate), I suppose.

 

[jedidia]

(Besides, the Nazis would have mainly spoken German, after all.)

I think the term might originally stem from the project of the Nazis to purify the german language from foreign words, and the results were quite bizare. For example, they changed the perfectly established word "explosion" with the pure german construct (i.e. not pre-existing) "zerknall" and stuff like that.

I think on an international forum, you just have to live with some people not writing a very good english, however I agree that I feel generally disrespected by native english speakers (with america, england or australia in the nationality tag) that write in a hardly decipherable english that is a lot worse than my own. It marks The person as either "I don't care" or as slightly retarded, with second being a valid excuse, but members of the first group feeling generally offended when you assume that this is the cause for their bad writing...

So yes, I would wholeheartedly welcome if those who actually can speak english (or are supposed to, because it's their mother tongue) would spend some minimal effort to do so. It also helps identifying those who really aren't able to do so and sparing some more patience for them.

 

[Face]

I think this thread is a nice way to help forum members to keep up with the "official" forum language English.

But please keep in mind, that an angry attitude against those of us who are not native speakers (like me, obviously ) is counterproductive and induces comments containing the term "grammar-nazi". Not that I'm saying that someone did that already...

On a more philosophical scale, languages always change over time as their speakers change over time, too. And with English clearly becoming THE lingua franca, I am pretty sure that we will see even more "common mistakes" poping up. I am also sure that those mistakes can quickly become "rules", like that its/it's thing. If enough people make it "wrong", it will be "right" in the end.

regards,
Face
(who always takes his time to make his posts error-free... and more than often still fails to do so)

 

[Linguofreak]

One of my peeves: THEN vs. THAN. It drives me crazy when someone writes something like, "I like Bill better then I like Steve," or "I'm going to the library than to the store." :facepalm: I see this more and more these days.

That's because, nowadays, the dialects in which "then" and "than" are pronounced the same are spreading. More and more people are growing up unable to hear any difference between the two words, because of the fact that "short a" is actually one of the longer vowel sounds in the English language, especially before n, and because "than" is a function word that tends to be unstressed (the "length" of vowels refers only to how they were pronounced in Old/Middle English, and has nothing to do with the timing and rhythm of modern speech). This has led to changes, over time, in how the word is pronounced and perceived.

THEN and THAN do NOT sound the same. (And neither of them sound like THIN.) THEN has a short e sound, like peg or hen or led. THAN has a short a sound like that, cat, plan or can.

Welcome to the wonderful world of phonology, sound shifts, and language change. The British, and some East-coasters, would insist the same thing about "merry", "Mary", and "marry", which are homophones to most of us Yankees.

The problem is that even just in the US there are enough different accents and dialects that picking "one pronunciation to rule them all", especially for vowels, is difficult. Pick one *educated* speaker each from California, Texas, Iowa, and Philadelphia, and you'll find four different opinions on what pronunciations are proper. Add in the British Isles, Australia, etc, and trying to find a unified pronunciation becomes hopeless.

Note that I'm only arguing here about how things are *pronounced*, not how they're written. For me, the pronunciations of "then" and "than" are identical, but in writing I keep them very strictly separate, and it is jarring enough to be a pet peeve when I see the two switched.

 

[Urwumpe]

I think the tearm might originally stem from the project of the Nazis to purify the german language from foreign words, and the results were quite bizare. For example, they changed the perfectly established word "explosion" with the pure german construct (i.e. not pre-existing) "zerknall" and stuff like that.

And such people are not dead yet. There is a group of people who fight against Anglicisms, and whose word creations are only happily embraced by Neonazi groups.

http://www.vds-ev.de/

I think about such people like about the scientists which developed the new German spelling rules. Before you improve a language, you should know it.

Also, Europe would be very boring without the happy exchange of words between the languages. "Karambolage" is a word, that sounds like the event it describes. Just like "Kindergarten" is used worldwide.

And "kaputt" might be in the memory of WW2 veterans as totally German word, but actually, it is Yiddish (kaput). Like many other popular German words that happily exist today.

 

[SiberianTiger]

That's because, nowadays, the dialects in which "then" and "than" are pronounced the same are spreading. More and more people are growing up unable to hear any difference between the two words, because of the fact that "short a" is actually one of the longer vowel sounds in the English language, especially before n, and because "than" is a function word that tends to be unstressed (the "length" of vowels refers only to how they were pronounced in Old/Middle English, and has nothing to do with the timing and rhythm of modern speech). This has led to changes, over time, in how the word is pronounced and perceived.

Probably if Deseret alphabet had a chance of being introduced, it would help to keep things straight in English?

---------- Post added at 13:22 ---------- Previous post was at 13:18 ----------

By the way, is there a formal set of rules about punctuation with commas in English? I know some rules are there, or MS Word wouldn't be fixing my typing on the fly. But they seem to be not totally identical to the punctuation rules we have in Russian, and this confuses me most(,-?) at times.

 

[RisingFury]

eg: I broke your phone. It is broken. Next I'm going to break your computer.

Though you were gonna go with:
I broke your phone. It is broken. Now I'm going to break your bones!

Note well that "It is broke" is not correct, though it may be common dialect for some. The correct usage is "It is broken".

I'm broke! :lol:

 

[martins]

Not to pore oil in the flame's, since everybodys entitled to there opinion, but rule's are their to be broke. (I dont tend to loose sleep over syntax - its not worth it).

 

[Linguofreak]

Probably if Deseret alphabet had a chance of being introduced, it would help to keep things straight in English?

Practiclie *enie* speling rieform wud help kiep things streit, cʌnsidering that wie spel ar modern spiech in ʌ maner brodlie similer tu hau wie spoak 700 yiers ʌgo.

---------- Post added at 13:22 ---------- Previous post was at 13:18 ----------

By the way, is there a formal set of rules about punctuation with commas in English? I know some rules are there, or MS Word wouldn't be fixing my typing on the fly. But they seem to be not totally identical to the punctuation rules we have in Russian, and this confuses me most(,-?) at times.

Not really. There are different standards in the US and Britain, and alot of people just put a comma wherever they'd pause in speech.

 

[gattispilot]

I teach ESL ( English as a Second Language). In other languages are there words spelled the same but pronounced differently depending on the usage. Such as tear, lead, live,...

 

[Lucy]

I'm broke! :lol:

Ah, but broke in the sense of impoverished is a different kettle of ball game.

Not to pore oil in the flame's, since everybodys entitled to there opinion, but rule's are their to be broke. (I dont tend to loose sleep over syntax - its not worth it).

I... I think I'm going to cry...

 

[N_Molson]

I dont tend to loose sleep over syntax - its not worth it

Spending nights to code Orbiter in C++ requires an extensive knowledge of syntax, no ? :lol:

Another syntax question :

do you : put a spacecraft into orbit / send a spacecraft in orbit ?

I never know how to write that (which is a shame when you use Orbiter !)

 

[tblaxland]

I said Hooray, that implies I like that we are using proper English, do you see me not using proper English?

I don't see the proper English. Your sentence should be either three separate sentences or two sentences and some conjunctions . For example:

1. I said Hooray. That implies I like that we are using proper English. Do you see me not using proper English?

2. I said Hooray, so that implies that I like that we are using proper English. Do you see me not using proper English?

:thumbup: