Rant Public education budget cuts

Pouring more money into the school systems is NOT the answer. Looking from about 1970 to now, you can see that the amount of money that has been put into public schools has increased enormously, yet average test scores have remained about the same.

Is that adjusted for inflation or not? It shows the money spent on education to have tripled over the past 40 years.

Meanwhile, the value of the dollar has shrunk by a factor of six over the same time period.

Which, if that isn't adjusted for inflation, means that the value of the funding that goes into education has shrunk by half.

Of course, the graph doesn't say whether it's adjusted for inflation or not, so we get "either we're spending three times as much or half as much on education, and it hasn't affected test scores at all".

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As the saying goes, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Or as my dad likes to say: Statistics don't give answers. Statistics tell you what questions to ask.
 
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It is adjusted for inflation. Here's the article:
http://rogerkerr.wordpress.com/2011/03/11/friday-graph-public-education-spending-vs-results/

If you read it, you will see that it is adjusted for inflation. Here's another similar chart, also adjusted for inflation:
http://simplecomplexity.net/education-achievement-data/

Also, http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/regional/04/04/tough_lesson.pdf .

A google search will yield much more of the same results. Hardly a lie. Or a damned lie :thumbup:
 
Pouring more money into the school systems is NOT the answer. Looking from about 1970 to now, you can see that the amount of money that has been put into public schools has increased enormously, yet average test scores have remained about the same.
Ironically, I was reading an article about Ohio schools the other day. And it mentioned 1970. Saying how the budget hasn't changed since then. I know you are talking about a different state, but it reminded me of that tidbit.
 
Ironically, I was reading an article about Ohio schools the other day. And it mentioned 1970. Saying how the budget hasn't changed since then. I know you are talking about a different state, but it reminded me of that tidbit.

Well yeah, this is a national average. So some school budgets could stay the same while others could increase dramatically.
 
It is adjusted for inflation. Here's the article:
http://rogerkerr.wordpress.com/2011/03/11/friday-graph-public-education-spending-vs-results/

If you read it, you will see that it is adjusted for inflation.

That article mentions inflation, but not with respect to the data at hand (it mentions it in the context of education in Wisconsin specifically).

However, I have found other graphs made from the same data source that do clearly say that inflation is taken into account.

A google search will yield much more of the same results. Hardly a lie. Or a damned lie :thumbup:

That wasn't meant to be an accusation. Just the usual caveat on statistics. Perfectly true statistics can be deceiving if you're not careful.
 
That wasn't meant to be an accusation. Just the usual caveat on statistics. Perfectly true statistics can be deceiving if you're not careful.

Sorry I took it as an accusation :embarrassed: . But you are absolutely right, you must always be careful what you read :cheers:
 
Do you mean the Liberals in the USA wear funny hats? :lol:

Are they ordoliberal or just socialliberal? Or they just plan to liberalize marriages with pets?

Over here having a "public option" (Not even close to single payer) is downright "commie" to many tea party folks.

---------- Post added at 01:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 AM ----------

Pouring more money into the school systems is NOT the answer. Looking from about 1970 to now, you can see that the amount of money that has been put into public schools has increased enormously, yet average test scores have remained about the same.

http://rogerkerr.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/derugy-column-chart2.jpg

The way to fix the problem is abolish teacher's unions, fire the bad teachers, and hire teachers who perform as they should.
Also, the above graph is on average. While there are some school districts out there that are truly spending the bare minimum, there are plenty that are wasting money. Such as the school district giving teachers ipads mention a few posts above ;)



No, I think what he means is that a liberal person in the US would be considered more of a moderate in Europe, and vice versa. So you might be viewed as a moderate in Europe, but people in the US would view you as liberal. Not sure though.

And Halcyon, Bush has absolutely nothing to do with this.

Teacher Unions would not even exist if it werent for many admins who are drunk with power and school boards filled with people wanting the impossible.

I hear from some tea party folks that Teachers ought to make minimum wage and no benefits saying that teachers often do it for the cause rather than pay.

What these folks don't get is that these days most families are 2 income based due to the exposive rise in living costs. It isnt the 1950s where many teachers could easilly go without any income because good jobs were plentiful and wages better adjusted for living.

And so with this renewed war on unions and the middle class. Many teachers have said they cant do it and leave. Not because they do not like the children but because it is either this or their own family suffering or under huge amounts of stress.
 
The way to fix the problem is abolish teacher's unions, fire the bad teachers, and hire teachers who perform as they should.

Abolishing teacher's unions is a bad idea. Did you not notice that the three states that don't have teacher's unions have the WORST education and test results? The second two points are quite valid - and teacher's unions need to change the way they do a few things. The government should be working with the unions to accomplish this - not waging war on the unions. It should be noted that the legislation is still pending - despite what Walker and friends say, this law is NOT officially published and active, and the courts have said so - the Walker Admin is facing charges for violating court orders. Also, the meeting at which this legislation was "passed" was NOT a valid session - it clearly violated Wisconsin Open Meeting laws.

Also, even if it becomes official, this "reform" does absolutely nothing to change the way teachers are fired or promoted. It does absolutely nothing to solve the actual problems - just makes a great grandstand for Walker to launch a future Presidential campaign.

As to the figures on school spending, this is presented in a very misleading way. It is presented as if this money is what they actually spend on textbooks and teachers. This is actually an average - the total spent divided by number of students. What it doesn't mention is that quite a bit of this money is being spent on infrastructure. Electricity and heating costs (which have more than tripled in the last decade.), fuel for the busses (our school district encompasses almost 400 square miles - some students live over 80 miles from the school they attend).

Also, the state mandated that all schools upgrade the environmental systems (heating and AC) within the last decade. The costs for this are amortized over a ten year period so the savings from increased efficiency won't be reflected on the books til the next decade - and the costs of these upgrades (almost $300,000 in our district alone) are included in the "costs" used in the charts you link to.

Along with highly increased infrastructure costs, the baby boom is over and the schools have a few dozen less students each year. Not enough less to let us close buldings or reduce staff, but it does increase the "per student" costs for infrastructure.

Also consider what Bush's "No Child Left Behind" policy did. It set standardized tests - which are designed to get a bit harder each year. So the fact that test scores are remaining the same means the kids ARE getting a better education - if they weren't getting a better education than last year the scores would be declining.

The producers of the charts linked to failed to mention any of this - just used raw numbers to support their preconceptions. That first chart, BTW, was from a guy in New Zealand - hardly someone you would expect to be an expert on education in Wisconsin.

The answer to the education problems here in Wisconsin (and probably most other states as well) isn't Union Busting. It's participation. Teachers aren't hired by the Union, they are hired by elected School Boards. The Boards have two years to "try" a teacher before that teacher's job is protected by the union - but very rarely does a new teacher get fired - even when layoffs occur most often the lowest senoirity "tenured" teacher is let go (since they get a higher salary than teachers on "trial".

The I-pads I mentioned weren't asked for by the Union, or even the individual teachers - it was the School Board that came with that idea (even though only 25% of the laptops purchased last year have actually been given to the teachers - thanks to the incompetence and laziness of the utterly unqualified IT manager (not a union position - his only qualification is a "Certificate Of Completion" issued by the local branch of a tech school, and that's only for a 4 week class on MS Office) hired by the School Board (without the Superintendant's approval).

If you want to improve the quality of education in your school district, run for the School Board - or at least vote for good people instead of just re-electing the same idiots year after year.

What the union busting here in Wisconsin would do is LOWER the quality of education. 6 of our best teachers have put in their notice - should collective bargaining be banned.

I should note that the lawsuit against Walker's legislation eliminating collective bargaining was filed by the Firefighter's Union - who were exempted from the legislation and would retain their collective bargaining rights even were it enacted.

A lot of people say that teachers get too many benefits - like full medical and pension at no cost. What they don't mention is that teachers agreed to take little to no raises (not even cost of living) for years in exchange for "deferred compenstation" (ie, free medical and pension). Even so, the teacher's union here in Wisconsin agreed to the wage and benefit cuts Walker wanted - back in December. If Walker had signed the contract then it would have saved the state about $7 million. Instead, he refused to deal, and held out for the elimination of collective bargaining. Now, even if his legislation were passed back in February, it would have only saved the state about $3.5 million. His obsession with breaking the unions has already cost the state about $3.5 million. There's a lot more to come - for instance, only three cities in Wisconsin have privatized the Public Transportation systems. Every other city will lose ALL federal money - forcing the closure of most of Wisconsin's public transportaion systems (money is only available to systems which have collective bargaining rights - and the privatized systems are all union - only the publically owned systems would not be union.)

Keep in mind that Walker is the guy who turned down a multi-billion dollar grant for high speed rail because Wisconsin would have had to spend some money - but is going to spend even more of my tax dollars rebuilding the Zoo interchange in Milwaukee - nevermind that it was completely rebuilt JUST LAST MAY.

None of what's happening in Wisconsin is about education reform. It's not even about balancing the budget. It's just a means to an end.
 
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No child left behind. I got to watch the effects of that first hand when the worst in multiple classes I took (Who spent most of their time acting like thugs and gang like BS) were taken to a special room with some educational sounding name I forgot with the BS line of receiving extra specialized teaching. In reality they were given the answers and scored perfect in test after test so the school would not lose money going straight towards a GIANT football stadium (I think some NFL games could run profitably in there)

Now dont get me wrong... I have had some BAD teachers in the past,,, Funny thing is I understand now that most were kept not because of Tenure but because of a chronic lack of teachers back then willing to work those classes.

You know what is scary. In the future if this keeps up you will get teachers and schools who are pure profit oriented. Public school will be the horror many students fear and will do just enough to stay in profit schools that have the authority to reject students at any time. That will cause public schools to fill with problem students (Even more than today) with HUGE class sizes due to lack of teachers willing to take the risk.
 
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