Question Ranger (and other ships) from Interstellar?

[gattispilot]

Slow but good. We rotated the Endurance so the CC deck is now at the top. The ranger will have 8 working mfds.

Still working on the vc's drawing on a texture and nav lights is the next obstacle

 

[gattispilot]

Ok. I need some input. On the LAnder we know from the film the chairs rotate along the x axis. It seems to counteract the rotation of the ship.

The lander has 2 docks one on top and bottom. Windows on top and bottom.

But do you think the chairs would rotate 360 degrees?

 

[grid4dante]

I think 120 degrees would be good, 60 in either direction. Any more than that, especially going full revolution, would be too much and might lead to disorientation, especially if the chair is horizon level but the hull is inverted. having them limit set to 45 or 60 degrees port or starboard would allow for a visual indicator of just how hard of a turn you are pulling, i.e. if the chair starts leaning, you know you are pushing the limits.

 

[gattispilot]

Thanks. Then why have the windows and dock on both sides? With the chairs rotation 360 degrees you could fly upside down. Inside the chairs would be 180 but the outside would look the same

 

[BenSisko]

The problem is that the Lander is asymmetric top to bottom. The top is slightly convex, the bottom concave and capable of carrying two cargo pods.

 

[gattispilot]

from the wikia:
http://interstellarfilm.wikia.com/wiki/Lander
The seats can rotate around the craft's forward axis. This maintains a comfortable upright position for its passengers and pilots while rotating and listing. To maintain visibility in any orientation, the lander has windows both top and bottom.

If the chairs only rotated 60 degrees in each direction. When The lander would be 180 flying upside down the crew would be at a angle. By going 360 the crew would be relative upright at all times, right?

 

[gattispilot]

And on the lander flying spec.:
this is what I have.

SetSize(11);
	SetEmptyMass(11000.0);
	SetCW(0.3, 0.3, 0.6, 0.9);
	SetWingAspect(1.7);
	SetWingEffectiveness(2.5);
	SetCrossSections(_V(71.59, 206.57, 50.58));
	SetRotDrag(_V(3.5, 3.5, 3.5));
	if (GetFlightModel() >= 1) {
		SetPitchMomentScale(1e-4);
		SetBankMomentScale(1e-4);
	}
	SetPMI(_V(32.49, 38.14, 23.67));

mesh size is x:14.33 y:5:0361 z: 19.83

from the shipedit:

Not sure why the y value is so high?

 

[grid4dante]

Yeah, I see your point on the chair rotation. I was thinking the windows top and bottom were similar to the small windows below the instrument cluster on a helicopter, to assist with visual confirmation of altitude during landings. Would it be worth it to program in a multi-position lock switch on the seat rotation? One for interlock so that the seat is in line with the normal, "up" position for landing, then one for free rotation, and maybe 1 or more settings for various locked limits? Just a suggestion.

On the size of the y-unit, what does that value represent? is that a cross section of sorts, because with both the lander and ranger, the "horizontal" plane of the vessel is quite large, especially in relation to the other two planes.

Edit: On the issue of windows, increased visibility is always a desirable trait in any vessel, given that structural strength and crew safety aren't compromised.

 

[gattispilot]

Thanks. Well it seems maybe just have the camera/seats just rotate opposite direction of the lander for bank.

That is what shipedit said the cross section was. the height of the lander is only 5.0361 m. The length is 19.8 and the width is 14.3

 

[grid4dante]

Well, let me ask you this: Where is the information for hull-to-chair angle coming from? Is the chair going to be following the horizon, or is it going to be locally generated by the vessel?

The reason I ask is during interplanetary flight, when Surface MFD changes it's frame of reference in a pretty snappy manner, and that could lead to sudden and unexpected shifts in angle, or possibly even the system becoming confused or un-synced.

As to the cross section numbers, I just did the math for a rect. prism those dimensions, and while I know those numbers would be high due to the actual shape/volume of the vehicle being less than a "box" it would fit in, they are following a similar pattern: height/length is 99.71478 square meters; height/width is 72.01623 sqm; length/width is 283.14 sqm. I don't know if this helps or not, and I'm sure there are factors that I'm not aware of, but the pattern appears to hold true with my math.

 

[gattispilot]

We think it is based off gravity.

		{
			VECTOR3 weight_v;
			GetWeightVector(weight_v);

			double const current_g = MAGNETUDE(weight_v) / GetMass();
			double const angle = ((current_g < 0.98) ? PI : atan2(weight_v.x, weight_v.y));
			double const radians = (angle / PI);
			{
				double const anim = 1 - abs(((radians < 0) ? -0.5 : 0.5) + abs(radians / 2));
				SetAnimation(anim_PILOTCHAIR, anim);
	
				//sprintf_s(oapiDebugString(), 256, "A %8.6f; R %8.6f; a %8.6f", angle, radians, anim);
			}

But since the Orbiter camera follows the motion of the ship. When you switch to the pilot seat view the view needs to be opposite of the vessel motion

 

[gattispilot]

Ok. Need some ideas/help. The flight dynamics of the Lander. Because this vessel enters the atmosphere she falls like a rock.

I was thinking press a key and the flight dynamics are inverted? But not sure what that would look like?

 

[Urwumpe]

Ok. Need some ideas/help. The flight dynamics of the Lander. Because this vessel enters the atmosphere she falls like a rock.

I was thinking press a key and the flight dynamics are inverted? But not sure what that would look like?

Can you use full English sentences and a bit more prose to describe your current and your expected behavior?

Right now I feel like you want ideas about how to fall like a rock.

 

[gattispilot]

ok. Right now the Lander has no lift/drag parameters. It was model after the Space 1999 Eagle.

The ranger is modeled after the DG.

So I need to add left/drag for regular flight and inverted lift/drag if inverted?

 

[Urwumpe]

ok. Right now the Lander has no lift/drag parameters. It was model after the Space 1999 Eagle.

The ranger is modeled after the DG.

So I need to add left/drag for regular flight and inverted lift/drag if inverted?

No, you could also produce a generic lift model. Since it is about as aerodynamic as a brick, you could also use the aerodynamics of a brick.

EDIT: Judging the fluff text of the lander, I assume you simply have a problem getting from "top forward" flight (heatshield is on top) to nose forward flight for landing. Just make sure the moments (cm) of the lift/drag function are nearly null.

 

[gattispilot]

No, you could also produce a generic lift model. Since it is about as aerodynamic as a brick, you could also use the aerodynamics of a brick.

What do mean generic lift model? True about the brick. But isn't that what they say about the Shuttle, also?

 

[Urwumpe]

What do mean generic lift model? True about the brick. But isn't that what they say about the Shuttle, also?

The shuttle was a very ambitious brick (At low speeds, it had the lift-to-drag of a Lilienthal glider, it was only slightly worse than a Concorde. At high speeds it was just a brick.).

What I mean is: Don't invest too much into sophistication. Assume it to be just what it is. A brick. It has no special airflow, nothing that really matters, if you want to be really accurate, it likely is just the sum of the pressure forces on each facet of it.

Also, forget the idea that it has to be aerodynamically stable. Make it unstable and use RCS or else for maintaining attitude during reentry.

At most, if you want to provide challenges to you and the player, make it semistable: At some AOAs it has islands of stability in which you are able to stay with minimal effort. and at others it moves around, maybe stabilizing at the next island of stability.

 

[gattispilot]

Ok. I would say she is aerodynamically unstable now, so just let RCS do the job?

Another issue which is weird. Sometimes when flying parts of the mesh vanish. From the VC point of view suddenly parts on the main hull vanish.

The mesh is set as ALWAYS.

 

[jedidia]

vanish as in "gone for good", or "reappears if I move the camera around"?

 

[gattispilot]

Not sure. Because In the VC suddenly parts of the main mesh vanish. Then I which to the external view and they are gone also.
It not like clipping.

I tried to get get a screen shot but couldn't

But another user got this. Notice the main mesh missing

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71242599/landerinterior.jpg

---------- Post added at 07:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 AM ----------

OK. For some reason print screen wasn't capturing it. So I took some pictures. You can see the missing mesh parts. Also some of the terrain shows up and then goes away.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71242599/20160607_190711.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71242599/20160607_190803.jpg

---------- Post added 06-08-16 at 05:30 AM ---------- Previous post was 06-07-16 at 07:23 PM ----------

well no issues in d3d9. but regular graphics.
I ran it and got a runtime error.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71242599/ScreenHunter_05%20Jun.%2008%2005.10.jpg

So I ran the debugger.
no issues then this mfd set to surface did this:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71242599/ScreenHunter_06%20Jun.%2008%2005.17.jpg
and then this
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71242599/ScreenHunter_07%20Jun.%2008%2005.17.jpg

from the debugger log:
First-chance exception at 0x7438DAE8 in orbiter.exe: Microsoft C++ exception: std::bad_alloc at memory location 0x00AEFD2C.
Unhandled exception at 0x7438DAE8 in orbiter.exe: Microsoft C++ exception: std::bad_alloc at memory location 0x00AEFD2C.

orbiter.exe has triggered a breakpoint.

First-chance exception at 0x77FC70E8 (msvcr80.dll) in orbiter.exe: 0xC000001D: Illegal Instruction.
Unhandled exception at 0x77FC70E8 (msvcr80.dll) in orbiter.exe: 0xC000001D: Illegal Instruction.

First-chance exception at 0x77FC70E8 (msvcr80.dll) in orbiter.exe: 0xC000001D: Illegal Instruction.
Unhandled exception at 0x77FC70E8 (msvcr80.dll) in orbiter.exe: 0xC000001D: Illegal Instruction.

First-chance exception at 0x77FC70E8 (msvcr80.dll) in orbiter.exe: 0xC000001D: Illegal Instruction.
Unhandled exception at 0x77FC70E8 (msvcr80.dll) in orbiter.exe: 0xC000001D: Illegal Instruction.