Launch News SpaceX Falcon 9 F3 COTS2+ Updates

[T.Neo]

What a cool image: flown hardware, hardware to be flown, and hardware being built.

:tiphat:

 

[Jarvitä]

Wait, I thought they were reusing the capsule?

 

[tl8]

Wait, I thought they were reusing the capsule?

They probably will in the future. But they probably want to try new ideas and it is probably easier for them to build new ones at this stage.

 

[Wishbone]

And perhaps no one wants to find out limits of material fatigue when the whole program is at stake.

 

[T.Neo]

Wait, I thought they were reusing the capsule?

Just because they plan to at some point doesn't necessarily mean they need to. And gathering flight experience before they step into reuse could be a good idea.

I'm not sure, but I think I've read somewhere that SpaceX proposed to NASA flying a new Dragon with every COTS flight.

 

[Orbinaut Pete]

Wait, I thought they were reusing the capsule?

Because NASA is unsure about the costs associated with re-usability (i.e. will it cost more than planned, like with Shuttle?), NASA have told SpaceX that each Dragon flight to ISS must be a brand new capsule, in order to keep costs predictable. Flown Dragons will only be re-flown on DragonLab missions. I don't know whether NASA will change their policy in a few years, once re-usability has (hopefully) been proven.

 

[T.Neo]

Because NASA is unsure about the costs associated with re-usability (i.e. will it cost more than planned, like with Shuttle?)

It really seems that the Shuttle has left a bad taste in NASA's mouth- the sentiment that reusability is untrustworthy (or, I believe, in the words of ex admin Griffin, that "reusability is a myth").

Dragon isn't the Shuttle, though. Surely concern about failures compromising payload delivery or station safety would be more pressing? If cost is the issue, why not pay the same as for a new Dragon flight, or fund a reusability 'experiment' and leave SpaceX to cover their cost overruns if their reusability process fails to match to their cost expectations?

 

[orb]

Parabolic Arc: SpaceX Moves to Resolve Software Issues:

Space News reports that SpaceX has moved to resolve previous concerns about the software development for its Dragon spacecraft, which is set to visit the International Space Station next year:

A generally positive outside review of the two firms under contract to deliver cargo to the international space station (ISS) contained strong concerns about software development procedures at Space Exploration Technologies Corp. (SpaceX) — concerns the company and the head of a NASA safety panel said have since been addressed….​

{...}

Space News: After Pinging SpaceX Software, Review Team Softens Stance

 

[orb]

Spaceflight Now: Enhanced Dragon capsule begins launch preparations

 

[orb]

Florida Today - The Flame Trench: SpaceX connects Dragon to its trunk

Spaceflight Now: Photos: Assembling Dragon

 

[RisingFury]

According to the (unreliable) SpaceX launch manifest (as of November 17th), the F9 Flight 3 is still scheduled for 2011.

A bit off topic, but they scheduled the Falcon Heavy demo flight in 2012 already! Alright, I know that with SpaceX, 2012 means end of 2013, but still exciting.

http://www.spacex.com/launch_manifest.php

*Dates are for vehicle arrival at launch site, not liftoff.

 

[orb]

Aviation Week: SpaceX Demo Flight To ISS May Slip:

HOUSTON — Though tentatively targeted for early January, the NASA-sponsored Space Exploration Technologies Inc. (SpaceX) cargo resupply demonstration mission of the Falcon 9 and Dragon spacecraft to the International Space Station could slip a little later into the new year.

“I think January is pretty aggressive,” Alan Lindenmoyer, manager of NASA’s Commercial Orbital Transportation Services (COTS) program, said following presentations on the status of the six-year-old cargo initiative before the American Astronautical Society national conference here Nov. 15. “At the end of this month, we will know better.”

{...}

Plans for a January liftoff from Cape Canaveral AFS are subject to change depending on the software test results and outcome of discussions with Russia, Gerstenmaier said from Moscow, where he was following the Nov. 16 docking of the Soyuz TMA-22 crew with the space station.

{...}

 

[orb]

The launch has slipped:

NASASpaceflight: SpaceX Dragon ISS flight to slip further, pending combined mission approval:

SpaceX’s Dragon demonstration flight to the International Space Station (ISS) is understood to be moving into the February/March timeframe, while approval for the combination of the C2/C3 (D2/D3) missions – which would result in Dragon arriving at the orbital outpost – is still pending official approval from NASA and the ISS partners.

{...}

 

[anemazoso]

Does anyone know exactly why Dragon must be docked using the robot arm? It seams a debilitating lack of a capability for Dragon. How will Elon sell seats to the BA-330 if it cant maneuver and dock without a robot arm? Is it that NASA and the international partners are uncomfortable with such an upstart coming so close to ISS? This whole thing kinda bugs me.

Also, I don't mean to sound hard line but I think Russia has very little credibility if they try to block Dragon from docking. Their are very obvious conflict of interest issues there as well as some unfairness with regard to Russia's own transparency with Soyuz data.

 

[tl8]

Does anyone know exactly why Dragon must be docked using the robot arm? It seams a debilitating lack of a capability for Dragon. How will Elon sell seats to the BA-330 if it cant maneuver and dock without a robot arm? Is it that NASA and the international partners are uncomfortable with such an upstart coming so close to ISS? This whole thing kinda bugs me.

Because they are not using a docking port. They are using the CBM on Harmony like HTV and the MLPMs.

 

[Capt_hensley]

Does anyone know exactly why Dragon must be docked using the robot arm? It seams a debilitating lack of a capability for Dragon. How will Elon sell seats to the BA-330 if it cant maneuver and dock without a robot arm? Is it that NASA and the international partners are uncomfortable with such an upstart coming so close to ISS? This whole thing kinda bugs me.

Also, I don't mean to sound hard line but I think Russia has very little credibility if they try to block Dragon from docking. Their are very obvious conflict of interest issues there as well as some unfairness with regard to Russia's own transparency with Soyuz data.

The Dragon Lab may be outfitted with either a Common Berthing Mechanism(CBM) or a Low Impact Docking System(LIDS) depending on its mission. Manned missions (at least in the beginning) will use LIDS.

Future manned missions using CBM have been theorized that the Dragon will also be equipped with a very short arm with a standard Latching End Effector(LEE) enabling the berthing to be initiated from Dragon rather than from a so equipped station or module.

The B330 missions will not be a reality for quite some time. Bigelow Aerospace and Space X are still negotiating despite published schedules, and space agreements. BA must test and prove it's modular system to a point where manning them will be possible. That's a few years off yet. A manned Dragon Lab will be at least another year or so away.

This thread and others have discussed this issue in detail as the development has progressed through the last few years.

 

[T.Neo]

Cargo Dragon can't dock, but it can berth using the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Berthing_Mechanism"]CBM[/ame], like the H-II. The CBM isn't a docking port, so it can't handle the impact of docking and it needs to be held together to form a proper connection, but it does allow the transfer of large- size cargo (127 cm aperture).

Crew Dragon will likely have an iLIDS port or similar. CBM is suboptimal in this case because it takes time to un-connect and that can be a problem in an emergency.

But I don't think the issue is Dragon's actual control capability... it's just a matter of the connection system used.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Correct. Look at the docking port on the Dragons in the addon from Glider.
Cargo: CBM
Crewed: LIDS
Case closed.

 

[anemazoso]

Thanks all! It's pretty cool that they can just build in different berthing systems for different applications. :thumbup:

I also didn't know the HTV attached to Harmony. I figured it attached to Zarya like ATV. Guess I've been a bad space cadet....

 

[Zatnikitelman]

As a note, the International Standard Payload Racks can't fit through the APAS or iLIDS docking systems. So as of right now, the only thing that can get the ISPRs to the ISS is the H-II transfer vehicle.