Teleportation (forked from Sci-Fi Anti-G suit design)

[Artlav]

The point is the two seperate entities have two seperate views

There is one entity, the other is destroyed.

If you fell asleep, and was moved to another place, will you be a different person when you wake up?
Your point of view have changed suddenly.

---------- Post added at 00:21 ---------- Previous post was at 00:18 ----------

"Copy" lacks continuity of consciousness of the "original".

That assumes something external to the universe, like a soul, that gone missing.
If not, what else is missing?

 

[T.Neo]

There is one entity, the other is destroyed.

The created entity is distinct from the destroyed entity.

If you fell asleep, and was moved to another place, will you be a different person when you wake up?
Your point of view have changed suddenly.

That's potentially the least applicable analogy I've ever heard. None of what is happening with the original-destruction-copy-construction process is occuring here in any way.

That assumes something external to the universe, like a soul, that gone missing.
If not, what else is missing?

It isn't about a soul (though I suppose, in a seperate argument, it could be, if you believe in such a thing), it's about the original object. That object is missing. It's gone. The copy is not the same.

It isn't an issue of structure or being identical, it's an issue of history. The copy is a copy and not the original. It's a distinct object.

This is part of the extremely basic logic upon which the entire universe operates. You can only get around it by some sort of handwave.

 

[Artlav]

The created entity is distinct from the destroyed entity.

Yes, we established that long ago.

That's potentially the least applicable analogy I've ever heard. None of what is happening with the original-destruction-copy-construction process is occuring here in any way.

You claimed that a non-continuous change of point of view changes the person, i gave a counter example.

The copy is a copy and not the original. It's a distinct object.

Yes, it is a distinct object with different history.

The question is where is the difference that makes it inferior to the original?

This is part of the extremely basic logic upon which the entire universe operates. You can only get around it by some sort of handwave.

We both seem to stick to something blatantly obvious, but it's obvious differently to each of us. That's why i keep asking you to explain the obvious.

 

[T.Neo]

You claimed that a non-continuous change of point of view changes the person, i gave a counter example.

I said that? Where?

I remember saying that two objects are distinct...

The question is where is the difference that makes it inferior to the original?

The fact that it isn't the original.

We both seem to stick to something blatantly obvious, but it's obvious differently to each of us. That's why i keep asking you to explain the obvious.

And why I keep asking you to make sense what I'm saying...

 

[RisingFury]

What about disassembling the bodies for the trip?
Upload the crew's minds into a suitable computer, break the bodies up into cells, accelerate at whatever rate the metal can take, reassemble the cells by stored patterns back into crew's bodies, transfer minds back.
Problem solved.

No... you just killed the crew and cloned them.

In a way that would be very, very difficult to do.

I don't know if someone already written a post like this... I haven't been through the 9 pages of Star Trek we have going here...

The easiest way to ask yourself what defines a human is to ask yourself this:
Would you still be you, if you woke up in another person's body? If your body was lost and you transfered your mind into another body. Although you'd have to get used to your new body, you would still be yourself.

So, if the only real identity you have is your mind, then your body might as well be a robot. It's just a vessel to carry your mind.

As such, the method described by Artlav wouldn't produce a "copy paste" person.



A bit off topic, but the follow up question is:
Does "pasting" a copy of your mind into two separate bodies make a single person? The answer is no. The moment you create another copy, that person gets their own identity. Even though everything until moment when they got copied will be identical, everything from that point on will not be...

 

[Artlav]

I said that? Where?

in #119 -

The point is the two seperate entities have two seperate views

The fact that it isn't the original.

Again.
The fact that it isn't the original makes the difference.
The difference is in that it isn't the original.
=Different because it's different.
Circular logic.

I'm trying to make sense of it, but you keep repeating same things in a loop.

 

[T.Neo]

Artlav, I was stating that they have different views because they are different entities. A person going to sleep and waking up is the same entity.

I'm only repeating the same things in a loop because that's what you seem to be doing...

 

[Artlav]

I'm only repeating the same things in a loop because that's what you seem to be doing...

Then try to explain it differently. I keep asking because you keep not replying with anything i can make sense of.

I was stating that they have different views because they are different entities. A person going to sleep and waking up is the same entity.

If it's not a point of view, then what is this view?

 

[jedidia]

There is no longer a point of view of the original, since original is destroyed.

And is it so hard to understand that the original doesn't like the thought of this? seriously, this thread is going nowhere for some pages now...

 

[Ghostrider]

seriously, this thread is going nowhere for some pages now...

Because it keeps being destroyed and rebuilt, and it forgets it because of interruption of consciousness.

 

[Artlav]

And is it so hard to understand that the original doesn't like the thought of this?

It's easy to understand.
If you're afraid of flying it does not make planes fall, you just don't go on a plane.
Same thing here - if you're afraid that your soul would part with the body or something, don't go through the portal.


And yes, the thread is going in circles.
Any ideas?

 

[T.Neo]

The difference is that when you die in an aircraft, it's because of an accident that is avoided at all costs.

When you die in a teleporter, it's considered as operating properly.

 

[Artlav]

Looks like this thread is either going to go on more loops or take a turn into religion and whats-after-death direction.

So, not having any better arguments or questions, i bail out.

 

[jedidia]

Because it keeps being destroyed and rebuilt, and it forgets it because of interruption of consciousness.

It's still enough for basic survival instinct to kick in, at least for some of us.

I understand how one could have no problems with it on a purely objective basis, but I'd be terrified.

 

[Spacethingy]

I apologize if this seriously annoys some people, but this discussion reminds me of the plot of a recent episode of... a very famous BBC sci-fi series... in which precise and atomically accurate, but mindless, copies of human beings are made.

In a freak accident (blame the Probe), the copies gain consciousness. Their thoughts, emotions and feelings are exactly the same as the originals, having exactly the same brains.

Then everyone tries to blow everyone else up. :facepalm:

Now I know that the very famous BBC sci-fi series is pretty soft-sci-fi, but it kind of has something to do with this. Vaguely.

Darnit, I've done it again. :hide:

 

[Ghostrider]

Then everyone tries to blow everyone else up. :facepalm:

GERONIMO!

 

[Spacethingy]

GERONIMO!

Heehee, you guessed...

 

[Ghostrider]

Heehee, you guessed...

Guess? I was watching it on the telly just as I was trying to reverse the polarity of the neutron flow. :thumbup:

 

[fsci123]

You guys do realize that if one was to teleport a person using the "star-trek device" you would have reassemble the person at absolute zero with at least 50% accuracy or they may die within a few minutes to days or they may come out like animals... I could imagine such a machine being like a 3d printer...
The initiation device freezez the person a scanner scans and scrapes away atom by atom... Some time later a printer prints atom by atom using some type of nanotech in the same solid... The hardest part is scanning and freezing the atoms... Keep in mind that if a person weighs 400lb you will need 400lb of matter...