News The ESA is contemplating manned launches on Soyuz-ST from Kourou

[SiberianTiger]

from http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/news.shtml

The European Space Agency and Russian Federal Space Agency are engaged in preliminary discussions about the possibility of using the Russian launch vehicle "Soyuz-ST" for launch of manned spaceships from Kourou Space Centre (French Guiana, Latin America).

"Right now, there are negotiations between Roscosmos and ESA on this issue. The Europeans have a great desire to qualify the project "Soyuz at the Guiana Space Centre" for manned flights," - said General Director of "TsSKB-Progress" (Samara), Alexander Kirilin to "Interfax-AVN" Tuesday.

"There are prospects for this project" - he said.

Earlier, Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov, who attended the first launch of "Soyuz-ST" rocket from the spaceport in French Guiana on October 21, said that Europe in the future may rely on using of "Soyuz-ST" for their manned space program.

 

[N_Molson]

Now that would be super-interesting ! :thumbup:

 

[Grover]

gotta see this put in action

 

[Cosmic Penguin]

Actually ESA has investigated just how could this be done back in 2004, and concluded that the technological, financial and logistical hurdles are non-trivial. Plus Europe is in such a -storm right now, and already has a method of reaching space through Baikonur. Thus I don't see this happening right now. Still, it will be interesting to see what will happen.... :hmm:

 

[MaverickSawyer]

I think it's a question of when, not if.

 

[Urwumpe]

Plus Europe is in such a -storm right now,...

There are still many countries, that would like to have our problems. :rofl:

Really, if Europe is in a "extremely grave situation" - what do you call the situation of USA, Japan or even China then? You would need to find new superlatives soon.

 

[SiberianTiger]

No saying what exactly the spacecraft can be in that case, yet. But given the launcher is Soyuz, it has to be a kind of Soyuz.

 

[T.Neo]

Why does Europe not bother to use its existing spacecraft technology in this case? What a waste.

Also, whatever happened to the MAKS spaceplane? Surely that would make a good successor to Soyuz? Why was that, and its fancy RD-701 engine thrown in the bin? :dry:

 

[Urwumpe]

Why does Europe not bother to use its existing spacecraft technology in this case? What a waste.

Fear of the dark.

Also, whatever happened to the MAKS spaceplane? Surely that would make a good successor to Soyuz? Why was that, and its fancy RD-701 engine thrown in the bin? :dry:

Designed by the wrong company in Russia.

 

[SiberianTiger]

Don't forget that Soyuz-2 at equator is roughly 1 tonne in LEO more capable than Soyuz-FG at Baikonur. Actual capability needs to be calculated, however, with account of target inclination, too.

But it means that a larger "Sheng Zhou"-style OM can be installed. Or a less cramped SA, but that's more problematic.

A product of the modification can be called "Union". Or "Euro". :lol:

 

[SiberianTiger]

Also, whatever happened to the MAKS spaceplane? Surely that would make a good successor to Soyuz? Why was that, and its fancy RD-701 engine thrown in the bin? :dry:

Because the Americans don't make it, Russia won't need it.

Spaceplanes are suddenly out of fashion. At least, manned ones. But throw a hint to Russian MOD that they suck without a replica of X-37B now, and you'll see how lots of effort could be thrown at trying to achieve a "parity".

 

[T.Neo]

Because the Americans don't make it, Russia won't need it.

Apparently then, there is little effort to do something that the Americans cannot?

What a pity. Would also be entertaining to see the US scramble for 'parity'. :hmm:

 

[orb]

A product of the modification can be called "Union". Or "Euro". :lol:

If it's based on Soyuz, for sure it should be called "Union".

 

[N_Molson]

But it means that a larger "Sheng Zhou"-style OM can be installed.

I'd bet on that. Keep the Soyuz base (maybe with slightly larger tanks to keep the same Dv), and stack on it an european version of the BO. Europe has experience on life support systems and orbital station modules.

This would be the opportunity to enlarge the EVA hatch (that is too small on the TMA to allow a modern spacesuit with hard back to pass through), and make it compatible with the ATV, which could allow long-duration missions without necessarily going to the ISS.

So, an "heavy Soyuz" would make sense. I hope it won't stay a dream.

Launching Progress would be a first step (I guess it is possible to add 1 ton of "dense" supplies like liquid gases or water in the current Progress-M version).

 

[SiberianTiger]

Few payload capacity calculations done with http://www.silverbirdastronautics.com/cgi-bin/LVPcalc.pl:

Launch Vehicle: Soyuz FG with Launch Escape System
Launch Site: Baikonur Cosmodrome
Destination Orbit: 210 x 210 km, 52 deg
Estimated Payload: 7511 kg
95% Confidence Interval: 6385 - 8795 kg

Launch Vehicle: Soyuz 2-1A with Launch Escape System
Launch Site: Guiana Space Center (Kourou)
Destination Orbit: 210 x 210 km, 52 deg
Estimated Payload: 7556 kg
95% Confidence Interval: 6426 - 8848 kg

Not very impressive with the current implementation... If, however, we replace the third stage, adding an extra ISP...

Launch Vehicle: Soyuz 2-1B with Launch Escape System
Launch Site: Guiana Space Center (Kourou)
Destination Orbit: 210 x 210 km, 52 deg
Estimated Payload: 8699 kg
95% Confidence Interval: 7499 - 10059 kg