The moon hoax.

[Spicer]

For all you hoax believers...if you have the correct coordinates, you can shine a laser at the moon, and the laser will be reflected. There was a mirror placed on the moon, I believe, by Apollo 12.

Explain.

 

[Tschachim]

HAM radio operators listening in picked up transmissions direct from the spacecraft when NASA stopped re-broadcasting due to an "overheated camera"

The story goes that Buzz and Neil saw two alien space craft on the other side of the crater watching them

This allegation is new to me, the only reference I found on some conspiracy sites is that this is stated in the book "Celestial Raise" by Richard Watson, but I didn't find any further reference (for example transcripts or a HAM radio operator confiming that), so it seems to be fictional. Did you just read about that on some websites or do you know more about that story?

It is still my firm belief that NASA faked Apollo 11 but did indeed make it to the moon during the remaining missions ( obviously except for lucky 13).
Don't shoot me :sorry:; that's just what I believe.

No shooting intended, but I'm curious, too, could you elaborate? Am I right that you're believing they went to the moon two times, then they took a "fake break" (summer holidays ?) and then they went to the moon another six times? Any argument why this could be true or is it a kind of "religious belief beyond reasoning"? Again, no shooting intended, I'm just curious...

Cheers
Tschachim

 

[jedidia]

I think all this conspiracy and mystery stuff is not so unusual as some might think...

Legends and Myths were prevailent at all times during history. We live in an age where we filled in all the blank spots on the map, where you can fly around the world, go to the mysical east on vacation (noticing that it's not quite so mystical) etc. Where do we still have room for legend on the surface of our earth? we have none. But we have a rather intransparent social structure, economy etc... and of course space.

You have to place legends somewhere where not anybody can go and look. And mankind could never exist without at least a bit of grandeur and mystery.

I bet the guys at Nasa actually wished for evidence of passed live on Mars. Hell, anyone was hoping that. It would have been a mystery, a real one. Humans need mysteries, and when they don't get some, they go inventing them. It's a pretty normal behaviour.

 

[Messierhunter]

This allegation is new to me, the only reference I found on some conspiracy sites is that this is stated in the book "Celestial Raise" by Richard Watson, but I didn't find any further reference (for example transcripts or a HAM radio operator confiming that), so it seems to be fictional. Did you just read about that on some websites or do you know more about that story?

I don't know anything about the conspiracy allegation, but it seems like it takes some pretty serious equipment to have received the apollo transmissions. Some amateurs used a 9 meter dish near the University of Florida to pick up voice transmissions from apollo 17:
http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/sounds/AP17SB.mp3
The setup was nothing to sneeze at, that's for sure:
http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/trackind/Apollo17/APOLLO17.htm

 

[Coolhand]

The concept that hoagland, lear and others keep trying to sell is that there is infact a huge amount of evidence of very advanced life in the solar system, nasa in accordance with the "brookings report" has systematically covered up this evidence. essentially because from a social and religious viewpoint we would not be collectively ready to accept that life existed before us and may exist until this day...

pretty strange stuff! there doesn't seem to be much actual evidence for it though. but sometimes nasa does do strange things to photos... the first image of the 'face' since viking was processed in such a way to make it look like a complete mess... they apparently added an emboss filter (if this is true, why would you want to emboss a photo, assuming you're not playing with photoshop for the first time ever?) to the image and filtered data out of the image prior to release... this is commonly known as the 'catbox' image http://www.vgl.org/webfiles/mars/face/catbox.htm

however if this process really was going on, and this is where it all falls apart pretty rapidly, surely there would be more whistle-blowers - nasa/jpl employees who would speak out about it.

 

[Moonwalker]

The concept that hoagland, lear and others keep trying to sell is that there is infact a huge amount of evidence of very advanced life in the solar system, nasa in accordance with the "brookings report" has systematically covered up this evidence.

There is no single evidence of advanced life in the Solar System. The brookings report soon will be almost 50 years old and was created at a time when we didn't know much about space flight, the Moon, Mars and so on. At that time the USA even did not launch any human into space.

Today, after almost 50 years of space flight, landing on the Moon, Mars, exploring the Solar System and being able to look rather deep into the Universe we haven't found any single evidence of any life, less than ever what could be called "intelligent" life. No matter what some people do "believe" only because a very few ignorant authors do believe so

pretty strange stuff! there doesn't seem to be much actual evidence for it though. but sometimes nasa does do strange things to photos...

Not really. It's just people who interpret photos on their own to look for an evidence for any self-made theory or for something they read anywere in old books which mostly is not related to science at all. It's just disinformation and lack of knowledge rather than something strange on photos.

 

[Urwumpe]

Actually, this kind of correction for CCD sensed images is common. CCDs use electrical charges caused by light. Each line of the CCD image is one element - during reading the data out, the elements in each line get shifted to the beginning of the line one by one.

When you have very bright objects, the charges accumulate instead of getting completely neutralized when loading the next element in the line. This effect causes streaks and brightness variations. The less motion blur you want, the less bright elements you can have without overloading the CCD.

That is a problem for real time data, but no problem when you can post-process the data and know the behavior of the sensor.

 

[Coolhand]

There is no single evidence of advanced life in the Solar System. The brookings report soon will be almost 50 years old and was created at a time when we didn't know much about space flight, the Moon, Mars and so on. At that time the USA even did not launch any human into space.

Today, after almost 50 years of space flight, landing on the Moon, Mars, exploring the Solar System and being able to look rather deep into the Universe we haven't found any single evidence of any life, less than ever what could be called "intelligent" life. No matter what some people do "believe" only because a very few ignorant authors do believe so



Not really. It's just people who interpret photos on their own to look for an evidence for any self-made theory or for something they read anywere in old books which mostly is not related to science at all. It's just disinformation and lack of knowledge rather than something strange on photos.

i'm not drawing any conclusions as to why it's done, it's just strange is all.

certainly helps shift some books though

 

[ar81]

For a butterfly, a tree is dead.
But it happens that butterfly lifespan is so short that it is not aware of the life of a tree.
So, if we talk about "advanced life" using human standards it may sound too arrogant for an alien.

If we go into the sea and you meet a shark or tuna fish and you say "bring me before your leader", you would be using human standards.

If I was an alien, I would notice that humans are a race which pollutes everything, wants to enslave those who are different and want to submit any living and non living entity. So if I was a smart alien I would not like to take a human to my planet.

 

[Messierhunter]

pretty strange stuff! there doesn't seem to be much actual evidence for it though. but sometimes nasa does do strange things to photos... the first image of the 'face' since viking was processed in such a way to make it look like a complete mess...

Actually NASA has long offered the original files for download, prior to adding any filters. The original raw file for that image can be found here:
ftp://ida2.wr.usgs.gov/cdroms/MGSC_0004/sp1220/sp122003.img
I'd say the enhancements NASA did brought out the details compared to the original.

 

[Urwumpe]

Actually NASA has long offered the original files for download, prior to adding any filters. The original raw file for that image can be found here:
ftp://ida2.wr.usgs.gov/cdroms/MGSC_0004/sp1220/sp122003.img
I'd say the enhancements NASA did brought out the details compared to the original.

If I remember correctly, there is also a Mars Express image, which shows the same less spectacular image.

http://www.esa.int/esaMI/Mars_Express/SEM09F8LURE_0.html

 

[Coolhand]

iirc, the thing was that the catbox image was the one which was released to the press, which is why it caused such a fuss... i mean it is a really crappy image of something that a lot of people had waited a looooong time time to get re-imaged. that image actually seems to have been purposely degraded - according to some, by embossing and misuse of filters to strip out data, or at least handled very sloppily. it obviously raised a lot of questions as to why this official press release image was so poor, were they trying to hide something, etc.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u-20g7Bwdw&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u-20g7Bwdw&feature=related[/ame]

this presentation by tom vanflandern is quite interesting, it's from a few years back and explains what happened to the catbox image. watch from 5:50.

 

[Danny Ramone]

O.k. i retract slightly. If what you say is true about the cross hairs etc. Then maybe those photos wern't mucked around with.

I am just saying that it is not impossible that something happend up there that we wern't supposed to know about.

You ask if I beleive everything I read on the internet....
of course not, I take everything with a grain of salt, what I read just plants a seed for my own thinking.

I do however wish to ask anyone who has put that above question to me..
Do you believe everything you hear from your government? YOu have accused me of swallowing what i have read very quickly yet you ahve essentially done the same.

I know that conspiracy theory's are easy to come up with because people like to believe that the Big-brother government is really against them. But remember we are dealing with politicians. people who lie and cheat and tell you what you want to hear so that you vote for them in the next election.
as well as directors of organisations such as CIA whose joba and reputation may depend on certain information becoming public.

Aside from that, most democracies have "official secrets acts" which allow governments to withold information from their people in the interests of national security. Who is to say that politicians who are untrustworthy to begin with, would not find a way to manipulate this law for their own personal agenda.

Im not stupid, i know that keeping a lid on (was it quoted somewhere here 400,000?) people involved in the project would be difficult. But remember at the end of the day there were only three people in space, and the talked to one person on the ground.

I dont beleive everything i read on the net but i want people to admit that there is at least the posibilty that their government could be capable of lying to them about what really happend.

N.B. I mean nothing personal and I don not intend to "flame" or insult anyone on this board. I just wish to put across my POV on this matter.

 

[Coolhand]

Well there's nothing wrong with keeping an open mind. Governments lie to people all the time, sadly. Which like you say is something that makes all these conspiracy theories all the more believable, don't feel too bad about buying into it.

 

[Linguofreak]

I am just saying that it is not impossible that something happend up there that we wern't supposed to know about.

It's also not impossible that the holocaust was a hoax and the history books are lieing there too. But "not impossible" does not mean "very likely."

 

[ryan]

Now thats really wrong saying the holocaust was fake, my grandfather fought in the 101st airborne during ww2 he saw it with his own eyes.

 

[Linguofreak]

Now thats really wrong saying the holocaust was fake, my grandfather fought in the 101st airborne during ww2 he saw it with his own eyes.

Danny Ramone said that "it is not impossible that something happend up there that we wern't supposed to know about."

But just because something isn't impossible doesn't mean it's true. I used the Holocaust to make that point.

It isn't absolutely impossible that the Holocaust was fake, but just because it's not impossible that the Holocaust was a hoax doesn't mean that the Holocaust *was* a hoax. I'm certainly of the opinion that it was very real.

 

[Danny Ramone]

Danny Ramone said that "it is not impossible that something happend up there that we wern't supposed to know about."

But just because something isn't impossible doesn't mean it's true. I used the Holocaust to make that point.

It isn't absolutely impossible that the Holocaust was fake, but just because it's not impossible that the Holocaust was a hoax doesn't mean that the Holocaust *was* a hoax. I'm certainly of the opinion that it was very real.

Whilst you say that to discredit my opinion it can actually go a way to backing it up.

I'm sure the holocaust was real and there had never been any evidence put out to suggest otherwise. However this was being fought against by a country whose own civil rights were questionable. Its another example of how causes of how governments can shift the focus to deceive people.

If that makes sense.

But please lets not start an argument on wether or not the holocaust was a hoax. Before you reply to this post make sure you are talking about the moon hoax not the holocaust hoax.

 

[Linguofreak]

Whilst you say that to discredit my opinion it can actually go a way to backing it up.

I'm sure the holocaust was real and there had never been any evidence put out to suggest otherwise. However this was being fought against by a country whose own civil rights were questionable. Its another example of how causes of how governments can shift the focus to deceive people.

If that makes sense.

But please lets not start an argument on wether or not the holocaust was a hoax. Before you reply to this post make sure you are talking about the moon hoax not the holocaust hoax.

OK, bad choice of analogies.

But the basic point remains the same: Just because it's "not impossible" that the moon landing were faked doesn't mean that they in fact were faked. You can choose whatever other analogy you want: Just because it's "not impossible" that I'm from Zimbabwe doesn't mean that I am (I was born in Canada). Just because I could have eaten cheesecake for dessert tonight doesn't mean that I did (in fact, I had a marshmallow or two). Just because the moon landing could by some stretch of the imagination have been a hoax doesn't mean that it was.

 

[dougkeenan]

Scientists and engineers are not politicians. At least I can't think of any.