The moon hoax.

[Pilot7893]

For all you hoax believers...if you have the correct coordinates, you can shine a laser at the moon, and the laser will be reflected. There was a mirror placed on the moon, I believe, by Apollo 12.

Explain.

Duh, mee think robut put it un mun

 

[Messierhunter]

I'm just curious, what sort of evidence did you present him with? Being only a very, very casualy interested in spaceflight, I didn't even know that there was a conspiracy theory that the Shuttle did that. I know that they do classified stuff for the Department of Defence (I have proof! It says that at the Kennedy Space Center, where I went about a year ago), but I'm just curious what proof he had of the visits occuring, and you of them not.

I forget which mission it was, but it was quite recent that he made the claim that the shuttle was going to visit a "secret" space station between the time it was still on earth and the time it was docked to the ISS. He lacks all understanding of orbital mechanics (intentionally or not) and so he assumes that the shuttle should always be able to dock to the ISS only hours after launching. Anyone who's played with orbiter knows better.

He concludes that they must be making secret visits to other stations in this "down time" (which as we all know is actually tightly scheduled time spent inspecting the orbiter and preparing for docking) on every mission. When people try to explain orbital mechanics to him he brushes it aside and cites the ground-relative velocity of the orbiter. I tried to explain that not only was it wrong in theory, but it's not what is actually observed by amateurs with telescopes and satellite tracking ability. I explained that I've seen the shuttle through my telescope a number of times when it was in this "down time" and did not see it docked to anything at all, and the only object it travels near during that time is the international space station. I had video of the first post-columbia return to flight mission with the shuttle flying by itself a while after undocking to back up my own visual observation claims, but since he never responded or showed any interest in debating his claim with me, I never bothered posting it. To be fair, I only have two photographed instances of the shuttle undocked, though I've witnessed other instances visually - getting a clear picture is a lot harder than just looking at it.

 

[Urwumpe]

Does not sound like he is worthy being respected. Also, his calculation of the ground speed is nice, but he should also remember that the ISS (and any other space station in LEO) is not much slower.

Also I think that explaining him, that the Shuttle only has 600 m/s maneuver budget (and only 350 m/s of that left for rendezvous and docking) will not enlighten him....

 

[Moonwalker]

Secret visits to other stations during down time?

My deepest condolences to those people who believe/invent such rubbish.

 

[Messierhunter]

Secret visits to other stations during down time?

My deepest condolences to those people who believe/invent such rubbish.

I'd pity him too, except I don't think he really believes in his own insane claims, he leaves that to the gullible nutjobs who follow him. That's why he ignores any reasons why it's simply impossible for the shuttle to dock to ISS as quickly as he'd like. He doesn't bother to debate it and in fact got in a huff over stupid nonsense like this and left the ATS forum altogether.

 

[Ghostrider]

My deepest condolences to those people who believe/invent such rubbish.

Don't waste your pity on them. Slice their faces off with a rusty knife and stitch them back on upside-down.

 

[RangerPL]

Don't waste your pity on them. Slice their faces off with a rusty knife and stitch them back on upside-down.

I wouldn't even do THAT. The hoax believers are already seen as dead to us.

 

[Pilot7893]

It's so much fun to start an absolutely ridiculous rumor and see how many idiots follow it

 

[Coolhand]

heh. i am one of John Lear's 'sources'... listen from 4:05
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1aP40o6E-A&watch_response"]YouTube - Lear Update Pt.2[/ame]

:beach:

 

[Danny Ramone]

Well, the evidence IS that many independent entities tracked all the Apollo missions AND their data is consistent with the "official" version ( as you call it). Another big example is Orbiter itself ( as in AMSO and NASSP ). All the information in the official data as well as those from others can be used to accurately simulate an Apollo flight exactly as it took place( with only minor variations in time if done correctly ). You keep saying that believing the government info is the problem.

But just for one moment, think about it. Where the HELL did the spacecrat go after it launched? Do you think the Russians weren't listening in onj the convo AND tracking it ? Remeber that they had sent unmenned probes to the Moon before and had the technology to track spacecraft. They would have been able to verify the light-speed time lag with accuracy and if it was off by a fraction of a second, they would shouted FOUL.

And then, two words: Moon Rocks. Period

All this hoax crap came up in 2001 IIRC. All the data, and the samples ( 362 kg of it) returned from the moon were analysed by the top scientists of the wolrld for 30 years and no one had any prbolem until an a**hole called Bart Sibrel decided he wanted to make some money.

FYI, just in-case I did not make it clear in my other posts.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THE HOAX THEORIES. I know we went to the moon.

 

[martins]

I came across a funny forum (in German, I am afraid) http://www.forumromanum.de/member/f...tindex&USER=user_234035&onsearch=1&threadid=2
of a moon hoaxer who pushes conspiracy paranoia to new heights: he not only doubts the moon landings, but also the existence of Mir, Hubble and the ISS, and contends that the moon, contrary to popular belief, has a diameter of 200 km ... .
Although the guy does his best to sound serious, one can't help thinking that the forum itself is a spoof, maybe originating from some kind of social studies project. The funny thing are not so much the outrageous claims, but the furious and frustrated attempts of other forum members of convincing him of the errors of his ways. Is a good example of the mechanism of conspiracy theories and why you can't win against them. Every scientific argument that doesn't fit the theory is refuted by doubting the premises (right down to Kepler's and Newton's laws). With confident ignorance he manages to reduce all opposition to despair and helpless rage (and seems to have the funnier lines in the process).

The moral? There are more productive ways to waste your time than engaging conspiracy theoreticians.

 

[n122vu]

I could come up with an equally ridiculous counter-conspiracy theory to the moon hoax:

Not only did we go to the moon, but we went more times than NASA has led us to believe. There have been so many missions to the moon, in fact, that as a direct result of the number of spacecraft lifting off its surface, the moon's orbit has been changed. (If you remember, physics tells us that each action has an equal and opposite reaction). Since each of the lunar module ascent stages were in effect "pushing" against the moon, the moon was in turn pushing back (away from Earth). This has resulted in a slight change in the orbit of the moon. It is this change in the moon's orbit, not pollution, that has resulted in the recent climate changes on the Earth. The shift in the moon's orbit has affect the oceanic tides resulting in changes in temperature throughout the globe. When is NASA and the US Government going to come clean and admit that they have been visiting the moon every year and ultimately have killed us all?

I wonder how many will actually read that and think, "You know, that could almost be true."

Let the madness begin....

 

[Urwumpe]

Reminds me on the comedy program of Vince Ebert, who presented (in thick Hessian dialect) how his grandma explains the strange weather in the last years: Son, since the first moon landing, we have no real winter in Germany anymore, because the astronauts stepped onto something fragile up there!

 

[Master of Blades]

I could come up with an equally ridiculous counter-conspiracy theory to the moon hoax:

Not only did we go to the moon, but we went more times than NASA has led us to believe. There have been so many missions to the moon, in fact, that as a direct result of the number of spacecraft lifting off its surface, the moon's orbit has been changed. (If you remember, physics tells us that each action has an equal and opposite reaction). Since each of the lunar module ascent stages were in effect "pushing" against the moon, the moon was in turn pushing back (away from Earth). This has resulted in a slight change in the orbit of the moon. It is this change in the moon's orbit, not pollution, that has resulted in the recent climate changes on the Earth. The shift in the moon's orbit has affect the oceanic tides resulting in changes in temperature throughout the globe. When is NASA and the US Government going to come clean and admit that they have been visiting the moon every year and ultimately have killed us all?

I wonder how many will actually read that and think, "You know, that could almost be true."

Let the madness begin....

Now i wonder, would it even be remotely possible to achieve such a thing? Changing the moons orbit by "lifting off", technical difficulties aside.

 

[n122vu]

Now i wonder, would it even be remotely possible to achieve such a thing? Changing the moons orbit by "lifting off", technical difficulties aside.

:blink:

 

[Ghostrider]

You're all wrong. That's no Moon up there, it's a space station. And I have a bad feeling about this.

 

[Master of Blades]

:blink:

No really, I'm serious... would it theoretically be possible to do such a thing? Or does the laws of physics speak against it?

 

[John_L]

Let me get this straight.

NASA spent billions of dollars launching huge rockets that burn 20 tons of rocket fuel per second. They used ellaborate stages and tricks way ahead of their time to fake footage of men walking on the lunar surface. They fabricated every lunar sample brought back from the moon.

And they forgot to paint the stars.

Let me ask you... have you ever taken pictures of the night sky? Cameras are not sensitive enough to pick up the dim light of the stars. An extremely slow shutter speed and no movement of the camera are necessary to photograph stars. If we have trouble with it now, what makes you think they had it any easier in the 70s?

Actually, cameras are sensitive enough to capture stars, it's done all the time in the astronomy world. It's more a matter of the shutter setting. If the shutter were left open long enough to capture the light from the stars, then the brightly lit lunar surface, astronauts, etc, would be overexposed, hence, it's the exposure setting that prevents the light from the stars being captured.

I think the whole moon hoax thing is a result of people who are not particularly savvy when it comes to scientific things, and, happen to have the type of personality that is easily convinced (by themselves), that something they don't understand is not possible. So, they get paranoid, and look for inconsistencies so they can point out that it's all just a hoax. Truth of the matter is that there are (in this case) people who's brains are too small to understand what's going on around them, so they create these hoax/conspiracy 'theories' so they can conceptualize the whole thing in their brains. A previous post mentioned how all major events have their conspiracy nuts, which is exactly the same thing. I think it's a natural reaction of the brain to attempt to explain something that is too frightening or unbelievable. Prior to going to the moon, for the majority of human existence, it was believed that actually getting to the moon was a complete impossibility. It wasn't really until the mid-19th century that consideration of the possibility was even suggested. So, as fun as it is to poke fun at those who deny, it's really not their fault, it's simply their brains working as they should.

 

[Tschachim]

I came across a funny forum (in German, I am afraid) http://www.forumromanum.de/member/f...tindex&USER=user_234035&onsearch=1&threadid=2
of a moon hoaxer who pushes conspiracy paranoia to new heights...

Although the guy does his best to sound serious, one can't help thinking that the forum itself is a spoof, maybe originating from some kind of social studies project.

:lol: Unfortunatly it's no social study, Josef is real and well known in the german-speaking "Moon hoax scene". There are even more weird guys around, for example the "hollow world theory" claiming there's no space at all (and no Moon to fly to, of course): http://www.rolf-keppler.de/ (again german, sorry)

Cheers
Tschachim

 

[eveningsky339]

Guys hte Apollo it is hoax because the capsule it did not re-enter the moon's atmosphere. and the flag. too stiff