Request The new NASA Space Launch System

[Kyle]

Excellent work!

IMO, the tank will likely be painted white. I think the people that Keith is getting the conflicting messages from simply don't like the idea of a SLS tie-in with the Saturn, saw it when they announced that the SRB on the Ares I-X had a strip on it.. people, even engineers, where claiming it was to tie it into the Vanguard and the Saturn program when in truth it was for tracking and to see how it turned visually, same here. I think at least SLS-1 will carry the Saturn V paint scheme, and it will probably drop it later on in the program. That is just of course, in my opinion.

 

[Turbo]

Done:

Very nice!:thumbup:

 

[T.Neo]

IMO, the tank will likely be painted white.

You don't need to paint the SOFI white to have a 'roll pattern' on the vehicle.

It is a pure, simple attempt to evoke the Saturn V.

 

[Kyle]

You don't need to paint the SOFI white to have a 'roll pattern' on the vehicle.

It is a pure, simple attempt to evoke the Saturn V.

For the power point presentations to congress, yes, but in truth the tank will probably be painted pure white like the STS-1 and 2 tank IMO.

Personally, I think they should keep it. I disliked the orange ET on STS, the Saturn V evoked raw power just by looking at it.. the paint scheme looks nice to me.

 

[T.Neo]

:facepalm:

You don't judge a rocket by its... paint scheme.

They might paint the tank white, but there isn't any legitimate reason for doing so.

 

[N_Molson]

Let's be honest, we can have no idea of the final paint scheme of the rocket yet, and the bigger the rocket, the worse it is. Maybe that after 2015, there will be a new fashion in rockets-painting or something like that !

Basically, a layer of paint is dead mass. Now, I imagine that some special paints can be useful to make the body more aerodynamic, resistant to fire, to weather exposure, etc...

 

[T.Neo]

Why don't these "special paints" show up on the Shuttle's ET, or on the Ares rocket depictions, or on the Delta IV? :dry:

The SOFI is the colour it needs to be. It doesn't need paint.

 

[N_Molson]

Well, here it is the story behind that paint thing from Wikipedia :

Standard Weight Tank

The original ET is informally known as the Standard Weight Tank (SWT) and is fabricated from 2219 - a high strength aluminium-copper alloy used for many aerospace applications. The first two, used for STS-1 and STS-2, were painted white to protect the tanks from ultraviolet light during the extended time that the shuttle spends on the launch pad prior to launch.[4] Because this did not turn out to be a problem and in order to reduce weight, Lockheed Martin ceased painting the external tanks beginning with STS-3, leaving the rust-colored spray-on insulation bare, saving approximately 272 kg (600 lb) of weight.[5]

 

[T.Neo]

Hm, I've never read that explanation before. Guess I was not paying enough attention. :uhh:

Still: because this did not turn out to be a problem. It wasn't necessary and it just added mass and effort. Ergo it was removed. Vehicles decades later still have orange SOFI.

I don't know why there is such an effort to try and justify this purely PR-based paint scheme. :dry:

 

[Ark]

Done:

Sweet. Headed for a release? A velcro SLS sounds fun to play with.

 

[N_Molson]

Please don't get paranoïd, thanks :blink:. I don't try to justify anything. I was just wondering why they decided to stop painting rockets. There is no evidence if that SLS will be painted or not. Technically, you're right, it shouldn't. But are we even sure they are going to use SOFI ? Some rockets don't use that kind of insulating foam. Very little is known about that rocket.

Here are the references of the facts I'm pointing above :

[4] - "Columbia's White External Fuel Tanks". Space.com.
[5] - National Aeronautics and Space Administration "NASA Takes Delivery of 100th Space Shuttle External Tank." Press Release 99-193. 16 Aug 1999.

 

[T.Neo]

Ah, but it always helps to be paranoid, if only a tiny bit paranoid. :lol:

Considering several things:

1. SLS core is supposed to be hydrolox, and liquid hydrogen needs insulation or else you have problems with heat leaks and liquid air.

2. As evidenced by Delta IV and STS, the spray-on foam does not need to be painted.

3. The LOX tank might not be covered with foam, but even then, isn't the idea to keep commonality with the STS ET? Leaving the LOX tank uninsulated could have knock-on ramifications, engineering wise.

 

[N_Molson]

Now I get it better, this foam is necessary to keep LH2 at super-low temperatures. Rockets such as Soyuz or Falcon, that use Kero/LOX, don't need it. :idea:

 

[Capt_hensley]

Do you know why the foam is orange?

It goes on near white, then oxidizes, turning it dark orange over a period of several days. You can try this experiment with the spray on foam purchased from a hardware store. Sometimes called "Deer Foam" because the resign mix was synthesized from deer fat in the lab. Be sure to take it outside and expose it to sunlight and air.

Some foams have pigment added that allows for cure checks every hour or so. I'm not sure about this formula!

If I recall this formula has a fiberglass resign base for added strength and bonding properties. If the foam peeled away from the tank during launch, you can bet the most likely culprit was the surface prep prior to application. The bonding promoter was too thick, or too thin, or mixed improperly... You get the idea.

We used foams like this on the F-117 and B-2, Very sticky and messy when wet, and fairly hard yet flexible when dry.

 

[T.Neo]

The colour of the ET can vary pretty drastically in photos. I always imagined this was due to specific lighting conditions, but oxidation of the foam due to exposure to the elements makes sense.

The ET can vary from this:

To this on the pad:

To this after heating during ascent:

(Scorching from base heating and SRB sep motors is visible, angle does not show discolouration due to aeroheating on the forward ogive or around the forward Orbiter strut).

Discolouration after ascent was more clear on the painted ETs:

 

[Donamy]

The pictures after ascent are from charring.

 

[Snaps]

i thought this thread was about creating a SLS for orbiter not about peopl's opinoins on what color fuel tanks should be painted.

 

[diogom]

i thought this thread was about creating a SLS for orbiter not about peopl's opinoins on what color fuel tanks should be painted.

Which is a necessary discussion to have accuracy in the addon.

 

[Capt_hensley]

Source Docs for reference, Tank color is important to the add-on!

http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/sls/sls1.html
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/510449main_SLS_MPCV_90-day_Report.pdf
Page 24 of this:
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/525162main_HEFT_Final_Brief_508_20110309.pdf
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/580730main_7 - Dumbacher_MPCV SLS_508.pdf
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/545101main_11-05_HEC_Formulation_Plan.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NASA_SLS_ref_config_Feb_2011.png

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/581582main_BAH_Executive_Summary.pdf

 

[N_Molson]

oxidation of the foam due to exposure to the elements makes sense.

I think that that foam is closer to plastic materials than metal. The color shift might be caused by exposure to UV rays. You probably already seen this : when you leave a plastic bucket in your garden for an extended period of time, the color gets lighter, and the plastic itself becomes frail (depends of the quality of the material). The first ET were painted white to avoid this. But engineers realized that it was not a safety concern, so they stopped applying that white paint in order to save mass.