Request The new NASA Space Launch System

[K_Jameson]

Which is a necessary discussion to have accuracy in the addon.

Speak of "accuracy" is, IMHO, a little premature because NASA has not yet released detailed technical informations of the SLS. Much of the characteristics currently known are speculative.

 

[Capt_hensley]

I think that that foam is closer to plastic materials than metal. The color shift might be caused by exposure to UV rays. You probably already seen this : when you leave a plastic bucket in your garden for an extended period of time, the color gets lighter, and the plastic itself becomes frail (depends of the quality of the material). The first ET were painted white to avoid this. But engineers realized that it was not a safety concern, so they stopped applying that white paint in order to save mass.

Fiber Glass, and Graphite use epoxy resign, this foam is just a close cousin. It is NOT plastic. Plastic is a derivative of a petroleum product. Plastic is cured by the cooling activity post molding, forming or shaping in seconds.

Epoxy is synthetic chemicals with exothermic properties when mixed in the correct proportions. It is cured by time and temperature between minutes to hours.

All aerospace epoxies are adhered directly to the metal surface that is the structure to be treated or bonded.

I used this stuff for twenty years, it's a combination of the two exposures, Light and Oxygen that cause polymerization and oxidation to change the base materials color.

Artificial UV light, and moisture also can be used to change the cure characteristics of the resigns. Some resigns require direct high heat to cure to obtain additional strength properties. This process is very simalar to high temp Red RTV adhesives and sealants

But this is a debate for another thread.

 

[T.Neo]

Speak of "accuracy" is, IMHO, a little premature because NASA has not yet released detailed technical informations of the SLS.

Well, from the looks of things, we know this about SLS:

- It uses an 8.4 meter diameter core.

- It has 3-5 SSME/SSME derivatives.

- Early launches could use MPS hardware scavenged from STS Orbiters.

- The boosters, at least on early versions, are the 5-segment SRBs.

- The upper stage, probably derived from either the Ares I or Ares V upper stages (or both) is powered by the J-2X.

- Later launches could use LRBs, potentially powered by Americanised NK-33 engines made by Aerojet.

Frankly, I see no reason to trust a PR-driven computer graphic for technical details of this vehicle. This is basic common sense that applies to pretty much any animation- it's for show, it isn't intended as a snappily-made engineering guide.

Based on the fact that the Delta IV, the Shuttle External Tank, and pretty much all SDLV proposals for over 20 years have had unpainted insulation foam, I see no reason as to why this vehicle would need to be painted white.

It is a PR excersise for a computer graphic, pure and simple.

And another thing about that white paint, is it doesn't just add weight- it adds costs as well. Painting that paint onto the foam costs money, and why spend that money if doing so is unecessary?

 

[longmvu]

Is anyone making it?

 

[DaveS]

SLS on the pad:

 

[K_Jameson]

Well, from the looks of things, we know this about SLS:

- It uses an 8.4 meter diameter core.

- It has 3-5 SSME/SSME derivatives.

- Early launches could use MPS hardware scavenged from STS Orbiters.

- The boosters, at least on early versions, are the 5-segment SRBs.

- The upper stage, probably derived from either the Ares I or Ares V upper stages (or both) is powered by the J-2X.

Some crucial specifications remains uncertain:
- exact value of the empty weight and fuel capacity (for first and second stage)
- exact dimensions of both stages (only the diameter is known)
- Fairing dimensions
- external details of the rocket
Without these data, an SLS addon realized now is, in my opinion, pretty inaccurate.

 

[T.Neo]

Some crucial specifications remains uncertain:
- exact value of the empty weight and fuel capacity (for first and second stage)
- exact dimensions of both stages (only the diameter is known)
- Fairing dimensions
- external details of the rocket
Without these data, an SLS addon realized now is, in my opinion, pretty inaccurate.

External details can be more-or-less inferred from existing designs and concepts.

Details of tank stretch (and thus mass and internal volume) can be inferred from a plausible range of modification to the space shuttle external tank, or previous documentation on the matter.

Fairing diameter for the heavy is either going to be 8.4 meters or larger.

Either way, all of these things are 'easy fixes' as more detailed data becomes available.

But just because little is known about this vehicle, and the PR-rendering made it look like the Saturn V, does not mean that it should automatically be imagined in that "paint scheme", especially when there are pretty good reasons for why it doesn't make sense.

Unless of course, NASA paints the real thing white for PR reasons as well... but that devolution into showmanship would really be a sad injustice for the space program.

 

[Snaps]

How is the SLS coming along? I saw the pictures of it so far and it looks great. I cant wait to see the final product.

 

[Capt_hensley]

http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?p=307920&postcount=1012

Posted this in the "NASA future wars thread" because I didn't subscribe to this thread, and it did not show up in a search. Now that I re-found this thread, the link belongs here.

This is for the black and white livery, and It's a great graphic as well.
http://www.space.com/12957-nasa-giant-rocket-space-launch-system-infographic.html

Since this is now a project, can a moderator please re-catagorize the thread, or would the Add-on developer please start a project thread?

 

[porterguy]

Space Launch System with ORion MPCV

hello everyone,

Just want to say what a great job you developers are doing expanding orbiter.

I would like to make a request in light of the new NASA program. Obama cancelled the constellation program and has been cutting funding to NASA for quite some time now. Now, I'm no developer, and no matter how easy people say development is I know my addon won't impress me at all.

I would like to request that someone produce the new Space Launch System being developed by NASA as a hopefully cheap transportation system. I would also like if said vehicle was also accompanied by the Orion MPCV which will be the next generation of crewed transportation into space. I do currently use the Orion on the Ares 1, but I like to be realistic in as many ways as possible.

Thanks

 

[francisdrake]

Hi, maybe not quite what you want, but I am working to combine my old Orion-CEV with the Delta IV HV launcher. I thought this to be an easy one, but it looks like it needs massive re-programming on the Delta's side due to old code. I am about half through, a beta could be ready in about two weeks time.

 

[Zachstar]

It has been over two weeks. Anything new on that Francisdrake? (Btw hello long time no see!)

BTW believe it or not your Biconic CEV still works but Aerobrake MFD hates it for some reason.

 

[francisdrake]

Ok, seeing there is some interest in this, I upload a pretty crude test version of the Orion-MPCV on a Delta IV launcher.

Combining old code segments into a new one proved to be more difficult than I thought. The 2011 beta gives me some headache, as the launcher seems to get a sideways kick immediately after launch, which does not happen in a clean 2010 version (maybe an issue with touchdown points).

From the attached doc file:
The launcher tends to lean to the left immediately after launch.
Don't know why. Killrot is called to stabilize it in the first flight phase.

No autopilot. Use the 20-30-40 rule (at 20 km heigth aim for 40° inclination, etc.) Before cutoff of the main core stage pitch upwards to get sufficient vertical velocity.
Keep pitched upwards during the first phase of the the second stage burn.
Do not drop vertical velocity too far below 0 to avoid falling back into the atmosphere.

To separate the MPCV from the second stage press J and Return.
To deploy solar panels press S and Return.
To separate the CM from the SM press J and Return.
(The HUD-text asking for Return/Escape is carbaged by strange characters.)
______

The Delta IV launcher is quite on the limit to launch a crewed and fuelled MPCV into orbit. Tips: Gain horizontal speed with the first stage. When approaching MECO pitch 50° upwards. During 2nd stage burn point 70° or 80° (!) upwards until enough fuel is burnt to achieve positive v-speed again.

 

[simcosmos]

Ok, seeing there is some interest in this, I upload a pretty crude test version of the Orion-MPCV on a Delta IV launcher.
(...)
No autopilot. Use the 20-30-40 rule (at 20 km heigth aim for 40° inclination, etc.) Before cutoff of the main core stage pitch upwards to get sufficient vertical velocity.
Keep pitched upwards during the first phase of the the second stage burn.
Do not drop vertical velocity too far below 0 to avoid falling back into the atmosphere.

(...)
______

The Delta IV launcher is quite on the limit to launch a crewed and fuelled MPCV into orbit. Tips: Gain horizontal speed with the first stage. When approaching MECO pitch 50° upwards. During 2nd stage burn point 70° or 80° (!) upwards until enough fuel is burnt to achieve positive v-speed again.

Hello Francisdrake (all)

Although still doing private performance / trajectory and (slooooow...) addon development brainstorms I continue to be in a kind of 'away mode' from Orbiter (at least in what regards public interactions such as writing in forums). Nevertheless, I would like to write a couple of suggestions:


a) Maybe it would be better to start a new development thread focusing only on the topic of DeltaIV Heeavy + Orion Integration given that the topic of the current thread is about SLS-Orion integration (whatever SLS ends up by being... or not... I do have some doubts that we will ever see it flying in real world).


b) Another reason for asking for such new thread is that I might have performance and trajectory (and fresher Orion numbers) to share about this topic, I mean, each launch vehicle is a different beast... and such differences do have non-trivial impacts on things like trajectory and ascent related events (and such impacts are not very compatible with a generic 20-30-40 rule) .

The above to write that integrating Orion with DeltaIV Heavy requires also some specific discussion about how much different such DeltaIV Heavy / Orion spacecraft would be from the DeltaIV Heavy / 'Orion' configuration (and related very different mission objectives) that will fly on a 'near' future (for Orion's CM prototype first entry test, with boilerplate SM and LAS only with jettison motors). Then, some extra thoughts might be required about numbers which represent the intended hardware (DeltaIV Heavy configured to deliver a given 'Exploration Orion' into a given injection target).


So, I then end with the suggestion: it might be better to please open a new thread (and cross-link the two threads) and continue the discussion there. The input I might add for such thread could help to improve the simulation of such conceptual DeltaIV Heavy / 'Exploration Orion' integration.

I could even try to go back to some 'simcosmos' archives to hunt for the pitch profile and virtual telemetry that resulted from some of those older development sessions about the theme! Although the input data would of course need to be updated, such older development data could still be a good help for your development work. Just a suggestion

Ho, and in the way to building the 'Exploration Orion' integration I guess it would not be too much hard to do some musings about a 'Flight Test One' config and related simulation too

Happy development,
António

 

[MerA]

Space Launch System Add-on

I wonder why no one has made a SLS module with the Orion MPCV? All I find is the old Ares? Can any skilled addon makes make one? I would really like that.

 

[DaveS]

I wonder why no one has made a SLS module with the Orion MPCV? All I find is the old Ares? Can any skilled addon makes make one? I would really like that.

I have one in the works but its difficult work as the precise configurations of the various SLS Program elements have not yet settled down.

 

[MerA]

Is it for orbiter 2010?

 

[orb]

O-F Staff note:

Three threads requesting Space Launch System add-on have been merged into this one. There's no need for making duplicates.​

 

[Eli13]

Is it for orbiter 2010?

Why wouldn't it be?

 

[perseus]

SLS-MPCV

One could make an addons with heavy pitching SLS and Orion orion new specifications to carry humans into deep space.

The debut of the Space Launch System (SLS) will send the Orion (MPCV) on a 7-10 day mission to the Moon, with an aim to Qualify the Heavy Lift Launch Vehicle (HLV) and Beyond Earth Orbit (BEO) to Orion carry humans into deep space. Exploration Mission 1 (EM-1) Involves sending Orion around the far side of the Moon, prior to a splashdown in the Pacific Ocean.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/02/exploration-mission-1-sls-orion-debut-mission-moon-outlined/

thanks​