TX Winged Launcher

[Usquanigo]

Not sure if this is the right forum, as it could concievably go in multiple sub-forums.

Anyway, I just downloaded and installed this the other night, and think it's pretty sweet. At first I thought it would fill the role I was really looking for - something that could carry multiple types of craft high and fast enough that they could make it to orbit without needing to be fueled by magic. (even if the lack of a pit (or for that matter even a panel view) was a bit of a let down)

And as I played with it I noticed neat things like how the thrust increased from the air breathing engines as altitude dropped (getting into thicker air, meaning more mass could be chucked overboard). It really seemed well thought out, intricately detailed, and all around amazing, even possible/realistic/plausible.

.....then I found that it could reach orbit on it's own. And it carries a 50 ton payload. What's the point of using it to launch an orbiter which carries a payload if it IS an orbiter, and can haul twice the tonnage the space shuttle can, up into orbit?

This thread is NOT meant to knock the TX or the work done on it in any way. I think it's bad ass.

I'm just curious what everyone thinks about it from a believability stand-point. What is the likelihood/feasibility of something like this?

I don't think there is any way to tweak it down (like you can with the XRs), are there any other launchers out there that can be used universally which would be on a more plausible scale?

 

[Spicer]

The XR-5 is a similar vehicle, but doesn't have the ability to launch other vehicles. It is somewhat the same shape, similar in size and power. It has scram engines which you have to operate on your own. It can carry large amounts of cargo and passengers.

I agree TX is cool, but the Energya, I believe by the same author, was a real launcher, and is very realistic. It can be flown on auto pilot or manual also.

 

[Usquanigo]

The XR-5 is a similar vehicle, but doesn't have the ability to launch other vehicles. It is somewhat the same shape, similar in size and power. It has scram engines which you have to operate on your own. It can carry large amounts of cargo and passengers.

I agree TX is cool, but the Energya, I believe by the same author, was a real launcher, and is very realistic. It can be flown on auto pilot or manual also.

Yeah, the XR5 is a bit "out there" for me. It's bad ass and incredibly well done, just more sci-fi than what I'm looking for really.

The Energia (is it en-UR-gia, or en-ur-GEE-a, btw?) is a rocket, isn't it? I'm looking for a fully reusable winged launcher, like the TX, but which is actually plausible/possible (red-tape, cost, and politics notwithstanding).

 

[tl8]

Yeah, the XR5 is a bit "out there" for me. It's bad ass and incredibly well done, just more sci-fi than what I'm looking for really.

The Energia (is it en-UR-gia, or en-ur-GEE-a, btw?) is a rocket, isn't it? I'm looking for a fully reusable winged launcher, like the TX, but which is actually plausible/possible (red-tape, cost, and politics notwithstanding).

Apart from Greg Burch's Space Planes, the TX is it.

 

[Arrowstar]

I love Greg's BSP4, though, one of my top 3 add-ons easily. I encourage you to try it!

 

[SlyCoopersButt]

Though not for boosting other craft (Unless small enough to fit in cargo bay), [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=1074"]DeltaGlider EX[/ame] is pretty good in the winged reusable catagory. How plausible it is I can't say but it seems far from being over-powered if that's what you want from a winged reusable launcher. It requires more skill than most and the ascent takes a while.

 

[Jarvitä]

The Energia (is it en-UR-gia, or en-ur-GEE-a, btw?) is a rocket, isn't it?

It's pronounced En-er-gee-ya, with both e's long as in engine, and the g soft as in grant. And, yes, obviously, it is a rocket. But, I believe Kulch's orbiter addon is called Energy (which is what Энергия means in English), so you might as well call it that.

 

[RangerPL]

The Energia (is it en-UR-gia, or en-ur-GEE-a, btw?) is a rocket, isn't it?

Yes it is. And a bloody good one at that.

My thoughts on the TX are that it is a nice vehicle, perfectly suited for lofting things to orbit. I don't use it too much, as I usually just use the Energia to do it easily.

 

[Unstung]

I never been able to get that thing into orbit, I must not have enough patience. Anyways, it seems as a good idea to launch lunar vehicles from orbit to make the trip easier.

 

[Usquanigo]

I never been able to get that thing into orbit, I must not have enough patience. Anyways, it seems as a good idea to launch lunar vehicles from orbit to make the trip easier.

I hadn't actually tried it, just saw that there is a scenario where it is already in orbit, so clearly it's possible.

Seeing your post, I decided to try it. From it's home base, heading due 90*, I managed to stumble on the key that turned all the lower (air breathing) engines on, then used the scenario editory to give it full fuel (no payload) and took off. It took a long time, but once I reach the upper 40Ks in alt, and nearly 4Kms in vel, it kicked on the upper row of rocket engines, closed the air intake, and presumably switched the lower engines over to the nested rockets, suddenly my velocity shot up like I was just fired from a cannon, and OrbiterDamage said I was accelerating too fast and tried to blow me up, but instead crashed the app, as it always seems to for some reason.

If I hadn't been on time accel at the time, I could have controlled that. And/or if I could figure out how to get the rocket engines on at will, it would have NO problem getting into orbit. It's a monster in more than just size.

 

[tgep]

Maybe it's because I've used it so much or somehow have the controls memorized but the TX is very easy for me put into orbit, with or without a payload.

Not only can you use it as a winged booster but it also makes a very handy space liner when not hauling hvy cargo into orbit.

 

[T.Neo]

I find the automatic control modes extremely irritating. I there any way to control them manually?

Also, how do I deorbit and land properly with the thing?

 

[Max Pain]

Though not for boosting other craft (Unless small enough to fit in cargo bay), DeltaGlider EX is pretty good in the winged reusable catagory. How plausible it is I can't say but it seems far from being over-powered if that's what you want from a winged reusable launcher. It requires more skill than most and the ascent takes a while.

One thing, that is really annoying about DeltaGlider Ex, is that his airbreathing engines also work on the moon.

 

[T.Neo]

I just go an XR2 into orbit with the TX. It is possible, But I'm not sure if the XR2 can arry a payload. Overshot SRC spaceport when I ran out of RCS fuel and I couldn't use the ailerons due to the automatic mode change.

One thing, that is really annoying about DeltaGlider Ex, is that his airbreathing engines also work on the moon.

They aren't airbreathing. The DGex's engines work as turbofans from sealevel to 30km, as some other thing from 30km to 60km, and as nanochambers above 60km, and in vacuum.
So the DGex can work perfectly on the Moon.

Me, I've barely been able to take off in the DGex, let alone get to orbit. There is an addon on OH that sticks the DGex on a Shuttle-derived launcher. I don't see that as realistic, a 23rd century SSTO spaceplane being lifted by a three stage 20th century launch vehicle. If the DGex had at least some of the features of the DGIV or XR series, I'd definately use it a lot more.

 

[Usquanigo]

I just go an XR2 into orbit with the TX. It is possible, But I'm not sure if the XR2 can arry a payload. Overshot SRC spaceport when I ran out of RCS fuel and I couldn't use the ailerons due to the automatic mode change.

That was my plan. I'm tweaking the XR2 down to be something very near future (anywhere from "what if money and politics were no issue right now" to 20 years from now or so), and that means getting it to the point of needing a booster to get into orbit, especially with passengers or cargo on board. And I thought the TX would be perfect. But..... as it can carry 50 tons of cargo on it's own, why not just build a basic people/cargo module, slap it on the TX, and forget about the XR2 if the TX can carry that into orbit on it's own, y'know? (nevermind that it takes me right back to the same SSTO problem I'm trying to backpeddle from)


-----Post Added-----

Me, I've barely been able to take off in the DGex, let alone get to orbit. There is an addon on OH that sticks the DGex on a Shuttle-derived launcher. I don't see that as realistic, a 23rd century SSTO spaceplane being lifted by a three stage 20th century launch vehicle. If the DGex had at least some of the features of the DGIV or XR series, I'd definately use it a lot more.

Yeah, if it had a working VC, or at the very least an XR style panel set up (IF it had all the internal modeling the XR does), then I'd use it a lot more too. I think it's bad-ass.

 

[T.Neo]

Trying to downgrade an XR2?

Hmm.

Maybe you could make it impossible for the XR2 to fly to orbit by itself, and attach drop tanks via sputnik's Velcro Rockets.

If you are set on a realistic horizontal takeoff launcher, I say give it a try yourself!

Play with coding in Sc3, and look through other developers INI files to see what they do. You don't have to make your own model, use something else as long as you don't rediribute it (I'm not sure if this is okay, it may not be, if so I stand corrected.)

If you decide to go through with this, I'll be willing to lend help.

 

[Jarvitä]

Trying to downgrade the XR2?

Disable the scramjets, lower the fuel by half, reduce the Isp and slap it on an Energia.

 

[dutchpirate]

I've been flying the TX for a while as well, and it's one of my favourites. I've recently been using it to bring an XR2 to SCRAM altitude and speed, then carrying on into orbit with the XR2. For an added challenge, <ctrl>F3 between the TX and your other vehicle after separation and try to land the TX while still getting into orbit with the other vehicle. I wrote [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3213"]this scenario[/ame] for a DGIV rescue mission using the TX a while ago.

 

[Max Pain]

They aren't airbreathing. The DGex's engines work as turbofans from sealevel to 30km, as some other thing from 30km to 60km, and as nanochambers above 60km, and in vacuum.
So the DGex can work perfectly on the Moon.

Sorry, my fault. I just read it in the manual.

 

[Usquanigo]

Trying to downgrade the XR2?

Disable the scramjets, lower the fuel by half, reduce the Isp and slap it on an Energia.

It's not so much a matter of trying to downgrade it. (Downgrade is a harsh term to use for something so insanely cool anyway) As you said, it's easy to do.

I'm trying to get it to a point where it seems to hit somewhere between current (possible, not necesary being done right now), and very near future. To me, it looks like a modern craft, and belongs in a modern (to near future) setting. So it's a matter of trying to hit that plausibility/believability threshold.

And part of that is the scrams. I think that's the way to go. A 2 stage system using a winged booster/launcher, which then gets flown back to base while the orbiter heads off under scram power, lighting the rockets only when absolutely necessary and heading into orbit (anywhere from LEO to maybe even Geo-sync), doing tests, giving rides, docking with space stations or other vehicles, etc.

But given what the space shuttle carries and burns through, and given the size and passenger/cargo capacity, it seems a bit too "out there" to me for it to be getting all the way up under it's own power.

So we come back to the initial topic of the thread, a winged launcher. The TX seemed perfect until it occured to me that 1, it's the very same SSTO issue I'm currently mentally wrangling with, and 2, it can carry so much cargo up on it's own, and be it's on orbiter, that it's counter productive to use another orbiter. Unfortunately, the TX doesn't have the flexibility that the XRs do. BIG TIME kudo's to dbeachy/Altea for allowing that kind of customization. It rocks.


T.Neo, the though had occured to me, and I would definitely need dev help, no doubt about it. I'll send you a PM.