US Airways Jet crashes in Hudson River

[Urwumpe]

Not more pleasurable, but more survivable.

Water is always hard, regardless of the temperature.

 

[Moonwalker]

Water is always hard, regardless of the temperature.

And if the surface is rough there is a high chance of an ugly crash regardless of the temperature too. Commercial pilots usually don't even have to train water landings. The kind of successful ditching we saw yesterday actually is pretty rare. The crew and passengers had all the luck they could have. It's amazing. Such ditchings are mostly that much successful for small airplanes.

 

[Brad]

Birdstrikes are relatively common, but how about cowstrikes?

YouTube - Cow Hit By Landing Plane

Hummmm.... to me it looks like he didn't hit the cow but rather the poor beast fainted. :rofl:

 

[Moonwalker]

Hummmm.... to me it looks like he didn't hit the cow but rather the poor beast fainted. :rofl:

No. Take a closer look. You can see that the airplane hit the cow with the left wing. Just note the shake of the left aileron when the airplane hit the cow. You can also see the shake of the whole airplane and its occupants.

I can't say that I like those kind of pilots.

 

[Bj]

:Refurbished Airplane for sale:

Cost;
$500

If you pick it up, then it's free! :speakcool:



:rofl:

 

[BHawthorne]

:Refurbished Airplane for sale:

Cost;
$500

If you pick it up, then it's free! :speakcool:



:rofl:

You'd be surprised how fast that would really sell if that was a real ad.

 

[Andy44]

Well, Captain Sullenberger is all over the news all day, today. NYC mayor is giving him and his crew the keys to the city, he's the talk of the nation. Apparently he has a myspace page with huge visitation.

Good for him. There was probably more than a little luck involved in the shear smoothness of his landing, given that airliner ditchings are usually much uglier, but I'll take lucky over good any day. And he appears to be both; so much the better.

 

[Hielor]

I can't say that I like those kind of pilots.

What kind of pilots? Ones who need to land their plane in a field right after takeoff for some reason (not sure what the case was there) and end up accidentally hitting a cow?

 

[Moonwalker]

What kind of pilots? Ones who need to land their plane in a field right after takeoff for some reason (not sure what the case was there) and end up accidentally hitting a cow?

It was an engine stall right after take off obviously. I didn't know that until a few minutes ago. I just thought he was one of those private pilots which cause strange accidents.

 

[Linguofreak]

Well, Captain Sullenberger is all over the news all day, today. NYC mayor is giving him and his crew the keys to the city, he's the talk of the nation. Apparently he has a myspace page with huge visitation.

Good for him. There was probably more than a little luck involved in the shear smoothness of his landing, given that airliner ditchings are usually much uglier, but I'll take lucky over good any day. And he appears to be both; so much the better.

And he's certainly better and luckier than the Captain of Air Florida Flight 90. That particular individual's ungoodness extended much further than his inability to perform a water landing. *Shudder*. "We don't need to turn on anti-ice."

 

[Moonwalker]

And he's certainly better and luckier than the Captain of Air Florida Flight 90. That particular individual's ungoodness extended much further than his inability to perform a water landing. *Shudder*. "We don't need to turn on anti-ice."

The first officer: "It's a losing battle trying to de-ice these things. It gives you a false feeling of security, that's all it does." The captain: "Well, it satisfies the Feds".

That's from the Air Florida Flight 90 cockpit voice recorder. And even more worse, the crew was taxiing closely behind a DC-9, in hope its engines heat would de-ice the wings. Such a procedure is not useful for de-icing, which is even mentioned in the operating manual (while de-icing and anti-icing is still misunderstood by a few pilots).

Anyway, Chesley Sullenberger certainly is not an average commercial pilot. He is 57 years old, has got more than three decades of flying experience and also works as a security adviser. And as an old U.S. Air Force guy, he exactly knows what he is doing and what he is talking about as a security adviser. He was even cool-headed enough to check two times that all passengers have left the airplane, before he left as the last one while the airplane was still floating on the rather cold water. No doubt that not each average airline pilot would have performed that way. Beside the calm water surface, it was Sullenberger who definately is mostly responsible for the lucky situation. Bernd Bockstahle, a former German captain, said that Sullenberger obviously has nerves like John Wayne.

 

[Andy44]

John Wayne was just an actor. An over-rated one at that.

My comparison would be to John Young. The guy so cool he was almost bored during STS-1 launch. Or maybe Neil Armstrong, who never looses his cool in a tight situation, even after dodging death twice before Apollo 11. Or maybe Chuck Yeager. Always liked Chuck.

 

[Bj]

Just a picture,


So has anyone tried replicating his flight yet?
*Yes I know FSX doesn't have suicide birds yet but they can just turn off the engines 3 minutes in.

 

[Hielor]

Just a picture,


So has anyone tried replicating his flight yet?
*Yes I know FSX doesn't have suicide birds yet but they can just turn off the engines 3 minutes in.

In one of the first missions (the one where you take the Piper from the farm to the airport fly-in a few miles away) he mentions something about avoiding the flock of birds. Pretty sure you can't actually hit them, though.

And I also think it's an automatic crash in FSX if you land on water in something that isn't a seaplane. X-Plane may be better for that, but the planes bob ridiculously when they're in the water.

 

[Moonwalker]

John Wayne was just an actor. An over-rated one at that.

I think that Bernd Bockstahle was referring to the kind of characters John Wayne usually starred.

My comparison would be to John Young. The guy so cool he was almost bored during STS-1 launch.

John Young indeed seems to be a pretty cool guy.

Robert Crippen had a heart rate of 130 shortly before lift off of STS-1 while John Young was at about 90. But that's even a lot for John Young. At lift off of Apollo 16, Charles Duke had a heart rate of 144 while John Young was at only 70. He often responds that his heart is too old to go any faster :lol:

 

[Urwumpe]

And he's certainly better and luckier than the Captain of Air Florida Flight 90. That particular individual's ungoodness extended much further than his inability to perform a water landing. *Shudder*. "We don't need to turn on anti-ice."

That was not the problem, you usually don't need constant anti-ice in the engines after they are running well, the compression effects of the air work well enough to give you stable performance afterwards.

What they did wrong was also using retro thrust in the same situation, though the manual clearly speaks: Don't even think about it.

This way, they managed to get enough snow into the cold engine to clog a static pressure port, which is used for controlling fuel mixture.

Even the snow on the wing was not the problem, this just made the aerodynamics worse. What killed the flight was the ignorance of the captain, who ignored the observations of his copilot and the strange performance of the jet. They needed much longer than usual to reach decision speed, and that is an obvious indication that something is wrong with the thrust.

With snow on the wings and the engines performing below nominal, a crash was inevitable. The snow made the craft pitch up and the engines had not been able to counter the loss of speed. But the pilot could have aborted the take-off after the anomalies appeared.

 

[C3PO]

My comparison would be to John Young. The guy so cool he was almost bored during STS-1 launch. Or maybe Neil Armstrong, who never looses his cool in a tight situation, even after dodging death twice before Apollo 11. Or maybe Chuck Yeager. Always liked Chuck.

Chuck is one cool dude!

But IMHO the 'Ice man' in this category is Gordo Cooper. Imagine falling asleep on top of a fueled Atlas! :speakcool:

 

[Moonwalker]

you usually don't need constant anti-ice in the engines after they are running well, the compression effects of the air work well enough to give you stable performance afterwards.

But the engine instruments may give you inaccurate readings if you don't use engine anti-ice. That's why engine anti-ice actually has to be used prior entering and during all icing conditions or if anticipated, except during climb and cruise when the static air temperature is below -40°C. It also has to be used in all icing conditions prior to and during descent, including a static air temperature below -40°C.

Using engine anti-ice once the engines are icy may allow inlet ice buildup and ice shedding into the engine. But for a stable performance you don't necessarily need constant anti-ice. But it's always recommended to be used prior to and during icing conditions (which is when the outside air temperature is 8°C or below, or if the static air temperature in flight is 10°C or below and visible moisture in any form is present).

 

[Linguofreak]

I think that Bernd Bockstahle was referring to the kind of characters John Wayne usually starred.



John Young indeed seems to be a pretty cool guy.

Robert Crippen had a heart rate of 130 shortly before lift off of STS-1 while John Young was at about 90. But that's even a lot for John Young. At lift off of Apollo 16, Charles Duke had a heart rate of 144 while John Young was at only 70. He often responds that his heart is too old to go any faster :lol:

What I want to know is what Young's heart rate was on his first mission.

 

[Urwumpe]

What I want to know is what Young's heart rate was on his first mission.

Possibly barely measurable. He was around with Grissom during that flight, and Grissom was likely the more nervous of the two.

I mean... just look at this photo:

Now the question is... which emotions do these faces show? I would say Young is freaking out and Grissom asks himself if he turned the oven off before leaving the house.