Venus Balloon Station: Ideas and development

[Coolhand]

you could have 2 separate platforms side by side, one for landing, one for habitation, linked by a flexible looking tunnel or walkway.

 

[Linguofreak]

How about a net to "catch" the landing ship.
I imagine winds will be very strong and therefor make a pinpoint landing in any case very difficult.

Yes, but the platform will be floating with the wind, so you'll only feel the wind when it changes.

 

[ar81]

How about a net to "catch" the landing ship.
I imagine winds will be very strong and therefor make a pinpoint landing in any case very difficult. The net will enable the pilot to land withing a much greater margin regarding speeds. It would also be easier to build and replace such a net.
It could be attached to a seperate baloon which can be filled according to the weight of the landing ship, so the extra weight will not screw with the station systems.
Once the ship has landed the net system can be towed to the station and attached there. The ship can be transfered to the station itself for unloading.

You would neet one net per landing.
An aircraft carrier has a 30 meter big napkin area to land.
If you add arrestor hooks to vessels and cables, you should be able to land.

 

[astrosammy]

Some litte launch pads for rockets for atmospheric research would also be cool.

 

[Artlav]

I dont under stand what you are saying in that part of that post

Meaning: I don't know yet if i find a hack to make UMMU move.

I would suggest, you place the solar arrays on the outside of the hab spheres, so they can also double as sun shield (top hemisphere).

The hab spheres are supposed to be transparent - they will hold the oxygen garden in the upper hemisphere. Also, the balloons will likely cast shadow on the panels there.

i think there's some technology being developed so that you can actually print solar panels onto pretty much anything, so flexibile solar panels for something futuristic like this isn't too much of a stretch to imagine.

Well, assuming the technology exists, does it looks sane the way it is done now?

If a vessel is going to land and fails, it would be awful to have a crash on the platform and endanger the main facilities.
I would put a detachable landing deck under the main platform.
If you have a crash, it should not damage the rest of the base.

That is what the runway is for - the tips of the runway double as main landing pads for DG-typed vessels the actual runway is too short for.
The small planes (btw, is there any existing add-on that fits the scale and description?) are hardly a threat even in case of intentional direct hit.


Continuing on the model - i've added some instrumentation to what is after all a research station.

First one is the radar&IR altimeter. The clouds are thick, so something non-visiblelight is needed to see the surface.

Second is the crane with a probe on a tether, coupled with sounding rocket launcher.
Does that one make any sense?
Probing the lower clouds maybe?

Overview with runway extended.
The parking areas are now colored like default pads, some paintjob fixes.

I can't think of any more major things to add to the deck, any ideas, requests?

 

[Urwumpe]

I don't mean a full coverage of solar panels on the hab spheres, just a small stripe which can move together with the sun and limit the amount of direct daylight. the sun is pretty powerful as close as Venus, and such a sun shield might be better as reducing the radiation with filters alone.

Missing:
High gain antenna - ideally at a point where the balloons don't disturb.

Also, a mechanism to safely drop (not winch down) payloads to the surface of Venus might be interesting to have. Sometimes you might want to be pretty fast in the lower layers to have longer time for measurements.

Also, a system to let astronauts reach the lower surface of the structure might be interesting for maintenance. As well as cleaning the hab sphere windows from dirt.

A sun observatory might also be interesting, though the position inside Venus atmosphere might be suboptimal.

 

[ar81]

How do you prevent rotation of base around vertical axis?
I would hate to be in my way to land in the final approach and discover that wind pushed the balloons and it started to rotate.

Runway texture suggests that you do not have a flat runway, and your landing gear may be broken.

That crane of yours looks like carved on stone.
This is my idea of a crane

 

[n122vu]

I would suggest, you place the solar arrays on the outside of the hab spheres, so they can also double as sun shield (top hemisphere). If you need more power, you could place additional panels somewhere at the base. A good place would be somewhere where astronauts can reach them and replace aged panels. For example the outer rim of the center structure.

I was going to say the same thing, ala Moonbase 2

Moon Base Two looks like it might be more durable. Apparently the dome shape is the best one for capturing solar energy. - io9.com
http://io9.com/5027571/instant-moon-base-to-be-delivered-by-ares-rocket

 

[Artlav]

How do you prevent rotation of base around vertical axis?

Hm. Extendable boom fins?

Runway texture suggests that you do not have a flat runway, and your landing gear may be broken.

I thought to make a torn paint look of it. As i said before, i'm awful at texture making.

That crane of yours looks like carved on stone.

Well, mesh making is carving...

It's WIP, ofcourse. The closer-to-complete version:

Also, a mechanism to safely drop (not winch down) payloads to the surface of Venus might be interesting to have.

Like the one above? A simple crane with release hook.
Just a hole in guardrail with a slide might be better...

I don't mean a full coverage of solar panels on the hab spheres, just a small stripe which can move together with the sun and limit the amount of direct daylight. the sun is pretty powerful as close as Venus, and such a sun shield might be better as reducing the radiation with filters alone.

Makes sense. Is there any semi-transparent solar panels? Putting such on windows will both provide shade and power.

Missing:
High gain antenna - ideally at a point where the balloons don't disturb.

That is indeed an important one. Now, where do i put that...?

Also, a system to let astronauts reach the lower surface of the structure might be interesting for maintenance. As well as cleaning the hab sphere windows from dirt.

Clamps and ladders? Walkways below?



Now, guardrails, an important feature:

And the look of the thing on approach.
That Swift plane looks like a perfect recreational vehicle around.

 

[Urwumpe]

For your texture: You could paint hardpoints for arresting equipment and astronauts on the deck texture, like common on aircraft carriers.

 

[Linguofreak]

I don't mean a full coverage of solar panels on the hab spheres, just a small stripe which can move together with the sun and limit the amount of direct daylight. the sun is pretty powerful as close as Venus, and such a sun shield might be better as reducing the radiation with filters alone.

According to Wikipedia, the 1 bar region is around the cloud bases, so the planet has already provided your shade for you.

 

[Andy44]

How hot is the atmosphere at this altitude? Could you use natural atmosphere as the lifting gas and just heat with a nuclear reactor instead of leaky hydrogen?

Also, while it's neat to have the spheres as lifeboats, how do you rescue somebody from a sphere floating beneath a balloon? There's no place to land.

Very cool design, though.

 

[ar81]

What is the name of this station? Solaris perhaps?

Ideas for runway texture. Make it flat. Runways need to be very strong and extremely flat.

 

[Linguofreak]

How hot is the atmosphere at this altitude? Could you use natural atmosphere as the lifting gas and just heat with a nuclear reactor instead of leaky hydrogen?

Also, while it's neat to have the spheres as lifeboats, how do you rescue somebody from a sphere floating beneath a balloon? There's no place to land.

Very cool design, though.

Well, as we discussed earlier, breathable air is a lifting gas on Venus with no need for heating at all. It's not the best lifting gas, but you can supplement it by replacing some/all of the nitrogen with helium. But as Artlav said, he's far enough along on it that it's a bit late to go back and redesign.

Temperatures at the altitude in question are in the 30-40 C range, I believe, although one source quotes as high as 75 C.

 

[Arrowstar]

If we use some of the weather MFDs available (or perhaps there is only one, either way), will this station buffet around in the air like a normal vehicle does?

That could make for some fun landings!

 

[tblaxland]

On solar panels, both flexible and transparent varieties are available. Some examples:

http://www.hotofftheshelf.com.au/solar.shtml
http://live.pege.org/2006-intersolar/transparent-photovoltaic.htm

Regarding external window cleaning, I would suggest a 90°-arc permanent scaffold, one each above and below the main deck, that is attached to the vertical axis of each hab sphere and can drive itself around the perimeter of the spheres.

 

[Lunar_Lander]

Hi Artlav,

amazing progress ! Did you read my PM with my comments?

A word to everyone to the atmospheric probe on the winch: When the airship LZ-127 Graf Zeppelin made it's flight to the Arctic in 1931, it carried two methods to sound the atmosphere above and below. For sounding the atmosphere above, sounding balloons were ejected from the airship's belly. They had a weight attached which let them drop straight down. A timer released the weight, so that the balloon could then ascend past the airship into the stratosphere. The data was then relayed through by radio.

For sounding the atmosphere below (up to the sea level), a probe was winched down on a steel wire and then pulled up again, when measurements were completed.

They also carried an interesting nine-lens camera, which produced pictures suitable for photogrammetry. Because of this camera being automatic, they were relieved of a great deal of mapping work. Could such a camera be an addition to the SAR-radar already onboard? Or is it maybe better suited for a Mars version of the station?

Anyway, Artlav you did a great piece of work there!!!

хорошая работа! Пойдите вперед с им!
(Please don't hit me, it's another WorldLingo translation ^^)

Cheers ,
Lunar_Lander

 

[Linguofreak]

Artlav, how are things coming?

I take it that real life has intervened? (Seeing as searching the forums shows no posts from you since your last post on this thread.) I hope it's not anything too serious...

 

[Artlav]

Artlav, how are things coming?

I take it that real life has intervened? (Seeing as searching the forums shows no posts from you since your last post on this thread.) I hope it's not anything too serious...

In a way, yes. I've got a chance for a trip of eastern Europe - Montenegro, Serbia, Albania, Croatia, etc that i could not refuse, weather being quite fine.

Now, i'm back and the release could be expected in a few tuesdays.

 

[ar81]

The hab spheres are supposed to be transparent - they will hold the oxygen garden in the upper hemisphere. Also, the balloons will likely cast shadow on the panels there.

Oxygen garden??? Plants need CO2, not Oxygen. Oxygen is byproduct of photosynthesis. If you put oxygen instead of CO2 for plants, your garden won't last long.