News When piracy makes no sense

ar81

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Reuters: Sweden's free-Web Pirate Party captures Euro seat

Some time ago I found that one author from this community who makes a living out of selling his software, had a counterpart crack in pirate sites. Of course I warned the author about the matter.

If pirates fight for "free content" they should know that this author has contributed to this community for free. So their piracy is only a deterrent to create free content.

If the problem is payware music, then what you should do is to look for free non commercial music. Commercial music is crappy anyway.

I used to have a neutral view on piracy. But now that I see a man with a family being pirated, therefore his income being cut, I can't avoid to feel that something is very wrong. This author is not a multibillion dollar company. They are stealing him. It is like having your salary robbed.

If pirate sites want free content, they should encourage freeware creation or open source software, like SourceForge. They should not destroy the source of income of those who create freeware.

This is a situation when piracy makes no sense.
 
Say...what?

Pirate Party != Pirate Bay

Stands in the news you linked to, in case you did not know it yet.
 
Piracy does not equal free content.
Pirate sites do not encourage free content.
This was the message I wanted to state.
Probably I did not explain myself.
 
Piracy does not equal free content.
Pirate sites do not encourage free content.
This was the message I wanted to state.
Probably I did not explain myself.

Yes, and if you wait a few days and then read your message again and think about it, you will do the same that I am doing now. :rofl:

But first read the Reuters news again and maybe take the time to read about the political agenda of the Pirate Parties in Europe (Sweden is the most successful, but the German one is also starting to get serious).
 
Well I am not familiar with European political agenda regarding copyright.
What do they mean with "deregulate copyright, abolish the patent system and reduce surveillance on the Internet"?

Deregulate copyright sounds like let pirates do their business.
Reduce surveillance on the Internet sounds like leaving international criminals alone.
Abolish the patent system... why?
Probably I am very wrong, because I am unfamiliar with their views. I would like to see exactly what they are doing.
 
Now I'm gonna tell you something that made Bill Gates the multi-billionaire he is today.

He asked himself this: "Why should someone spend hours and hours creating free content, being supported by donations that come out to be around 2 USD / hour? How could you have widespread development of highly evolved software and it's documentation that way?"


While I encourage freeware, I must admit that few free programs reach or exceed the quality level of commercial software. The ones that do are usually created by a single person or a small group and are born out of necessity.
 
I'm a bit mixed on this. For one, I'd like to see the enforcement take less of a terroristic approach (riaa or mpaa anyone?), but I still recognize the need to stomp true piracy.
For another, this pirate party could be simply seeing the future where everything Internet is government regulated and the Internet has turned into another police-state. By stopping government interference now, it opens the door to maintain a free accessible internet without having little cartoon cops pop up on your screen shaking a cartoon baton at you! (China was doing this)
 
Well I am not familiar with European political agenda regarding copyright.
What do they mean with "deregulate copyright, abolish the patent system and reduce surveillance on the Internet"?

Deregulate copyright - currently the definition of online copyright in all countries worldwide is based on the physical concept of a copy. As all activities regarding computers are based on copies of data today (Even streamed video is a copy in reality), this is obviously a flawed concept. The even bigger problem is, that the copyright laws are not made by the people, but are in most countries, 1:1 "copies" of the "suggestions" of the media industry, and contrary to the interests of customers and artists. Again a problem. The next problem is, that the copyright law gets more and more applied to content, it was initially not made for and which it actually should not protect. Censorship is often not implemented as direct and honest political censorship, but actually as copyright - for example the access to Nazi literature, like for example "Mein Kampf" is not banned. The copyrights are just owned by the state of Bavaria and the state of Bavaria does not allow publishing except for special research.

Just as examples of how such abuse of the concept of copyright actually cripples a country:


  • Democracy requires transparency. But what if important information is just copyrighted by trivial standards and excluded from publication? Just look at the awarding of contracts, which happens very often without the needed transparency to ensure corruption get be detected.
  • If the standards for assigning copyrights are too low, this means for any kind of thing you do in the internet, from writing a song to design a homepage, requires you to ensure that you don't violate other copyrights, regardless how trivial they are. This means, you are always in the risk of getting sued for nothing - and that completely legally. If you fight back, the current laws will result in you getting bankrupt before any decision is made - even if you are right.
This also applies to the patent system. Which was once a system to ensure that hard and long research was not stolen by more lazy rivals, is now applied more and more to trivial things. Imagine for example Amazons infamous one-click patent. The EU currently aims at enforcing such a low standard patent law in the whole EU, permitting also patents on simple algorithms, business models and workflows. At the same time, such a trivial patent sees the same protection times as a more complex patent. What took you 5 minutes to develop and 3 hours to write down, has the same rights and legal power as something developed in 10 years.

Surveillance on the net: Take for example the many forms of hidden censorship or the many projects in many european governments to allow the police to install trojans on PCs. Most such ideas are the opposite of the rule "innocent until proven guilty". You are a small bit guilty already for using the internet, much more guilty for using a P2P protocol (despite it also being used for legal content) and even more guilty if you encrypt your email - Only criminals encrypt their emails, don't they?

The danger is in the combination of internet-incompetent politicians, who have to ask in a press conference about internet regulations, what a browser is, and ruthless media industry lobbyism.

Just to show how important small things can become: There was a court decision lately in Germany which said, that copyright owners have no right to demand the internet connection logs of the providers, which have to be stored because of the EU law on connection logging. A system, initially called for "fighting terrorism and internet criminality", should now, before the ink on the law had dried, already be used for spying on users by the media industry. Of course only to find people who violate copyrights. Nothing else. And a judge or the police should not control what the media companies do with the data. They are not evil.

The legal way of reporting a crime to the police and get a judge decide that the reported crime is valid and reason enough to violate citizens rights, seems to be not very attractive to the media industry: Such correct processes happen extremely rarely and often the crimes are reported in such a sloppy way by the media industry, that judges have to reject the cases en masse. I know one court, which attempted to tackle the thousands of file-sharing crimes by the music industry, only to find out, that out of these thousands of cases, only a few dozen had enough reason to suspect a crime to start the attorney investigating the case. And only very few of them finally ended in the person investigated being guilty.

This is what organizations like the pirate parties fight: The attempts of installing a totalitarian rule over the internet, by the abuse of usually reasonable legal concepts like copyright and patents. Your citizen rights should end in the new media world. You should not inform yourself about corruption, abuse of power or be able to control what your politicians do at all. You don't need to know, and if you want to know what is required to fulfill the role expected of you by the constitution of all european countries, you can feel free to pay a large amount of money for any bit of information.

Knowing why company X got the contract for building a new public building: 500€.
Knowing why you are not permitted to build your house like you want it to be: 1500€
Knowing which politician is paid by which company for "advice or keynotes": priceless - such information still has not to be published to any one, despite small attempts to improve the situation.

The Swedish pirate party would have had likely less members today, if the judge, which decided that the pirate bay operators had been guilty, had not been discovered to be member of a group, which is fighting for more copyright laws and more freedom for copyright owners, and which is supported mostly by companies from the media industry for doing lobby work for them. And things are not better or different in other countries.

Probably I am very wrong, because I am unfamiliar with their views. I would like to see exactly what they are doing.

Yes, and still you rant first and learn later. That is exactly the same process as the subtle xenophobia in many countries, where people rant about foreigners before going buying food from them.
 
Whoa!! You impressed me. :speakcool:
It is always interesting to learn something like that. Thank you for your fine insight. :cheers:

Where I live, IP has no meaning.
I know a few bits about IP because of my experience in Internet.

Property is usually mistaken with custody here, and that is the root of corruption in my country, and that is why corrupted people do not think they are doing anything wrong.

So even banks steal your money as they collect fees when you draw your money from the bank, because of "cost of the service".

In recent days a controversy had been taken place because radio stations used to collect money from artists for "the privilege of having their music being known" instead of paying artists for their work.

IP is a concept that is not understood here, and I presume that it involves the lack of understanding of what property means, as it is often confused with custody.

Under the definition of copy, this computer is copying your post on my screen.:lol:

---------- Post added at 17:39 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------

BBC: Swedish pirates capture EU seat

Many people just don't see illegal file-sharing as a crime, however hard the media industries try to persuade the public that it's just as bad as shoplifting

I am uncertain about how europeans would see the case of an Orbiter european author who is making a living out of software, and a crack for his software is available in Pirate Bay. If he makes less money, we will see less free addons for Orbiter.
 
I do support the the view described in the book "Free Culture", and by that the Pirate Party receives from me 'thumbs up':
http://www.free-culture.cc/freecontent/
And by that, it seems I support abolishment of patent system and complete turn-around from the current copy-right laws.
 
Well, IP is an abstract concept. ;)

One of the many abstrusenesses of IP is the way, how the GEMA in Germany can mess with your life as artist, if you decide to publish music without the GEMA. There is a pretty good music project around, Jammin I*N*C, which decided to publish their music under a creative commons license...but with the GEMA telling them that they exactly can't do that, because it would be irrational to expect from the GEMA to know for which songs they are responsible. The GEMA assumes it is responsible for all music from Germany. And that publishing the music for free is illegal. Of course, it has to be said that the GEMA is no government institution, but a service provider of the music industry and known for oppressive methods, like sending spies to wedding parties to find out if somebody plays illegally music without paying GEMA fees. What gives the GEMA their power is the German copyright law (§13c Urheberrechtwahrnehmungsgesetz- lit. "copyright realization law"), which has many rules inside it, which are contrary to usual law standards - like for example the right to assume they are responsible for the music, and with the person playing the music having to get a certificate of the artist, that this music is not property of the GEMA. If normal law standards would apply, the GEMA would have to appear with a list of music which was played and for which they are responsible by an contract with an artist.

And now, you could ask, is there any reason to not just let the GEMA have their way and manage the music rights for the band? The answer can be seen on youtube, if you click as German on a German music video. The videos had been blocked because the GEMA demanded a price for German music videos, which was 100 times higher than what it charges for German radio stations, and also wanted that money per view and not per track (like on radios, which have to pay each time they pay a song).

If more good bands would be outside the GEMA and could demand their own fees, market forces would apply... with the virtual GEMA monopoly, GEMA can demand horrendous fees.

And that is again one reason more where the copyright system is not in the best intentions for the society as whole, but just favoring a small group in a unbalanced way.
 
Dang. You type a lot.
 
Dang. You type a lot.

Well, more power to him because the issue is big, and it's not just about copyright but about the means used to "protect" copyright.

For instance, it's last week's news that in Switzerland the Federal Administrative Court authorized the firm Logistep to continue its monitoring of file-sharing activities on the internet and its intimidation campaign against filesharers in the form of letters threatening to ruin the living daylights out of them if they do not agree to pay up what they ask. The rationale is that their methods are questionable but there is no alternative.

Well, I'm no lawyer but it's an asinine thing to state: that's like saying that breaking your tenant's legs if he doesn't pay his rent in time is questionable but it's OK since there happens to be no other way. Logistep's actions have been condemned in Germany and Italy, and their French lawyer was disbarred because what they do qualifies as blackmail finalized to extortion, not to mention violation of privacy laws. It just happens that in Switzerland this kind of activity falls into the domain of the law that regulates private investigations, and they are very clear in stating that you cannot have an "umbrella mandate" to investigate everybody under the sun and gather information about them. It's simply not legal. Yet it is allowed.

Same could be said about some "debt collection" agencies who, after blackmailing people threatening them to take away their houses and jobs send goons to "collect". It's illegal and everybody knows that, but I've yet to seen an arrest made.

So, this is not just a "copyright issue". It's about deciding if the civilized world can allow corporate entities to go above the law and tread upon citizens at will.
 
I am uncertain about how europeans would see the case of an Orbiter european author who is making a living out of software, and a crack for his software is available in Pirate Bay. If he makes less money, we will see less free addons for Orbiter.

Simple chain of reactions:


  1. I couldn't care less. Out of simple lack of sympathy for unknown known people. I know who you are talking about and still, despite all appreciation of his add-ons, I don't mind about his chosen way of bringing food on the table.
  2. You don't make money with selling software. You have to sell a service, which includes the software as part of the business. No company which really earns money sells only software. Or do you think Microsoft grew big on bullying geeks and sell windows? If somebody can legally install your add-on, he can also illegally do so. If a single crack is enough, your protection failed.
  3. I fail to see the relation between potential add-ons and his income. Your argumentation sounds like: "If you pay me for something else, I will make orbiter add-ons." You can of course pay me for spiritual guidance, I will not complain about it and maybe feel obliged to improve the quality of my guidance. But I will also not promise to make any Orbiter add-on faster. I like my real-life job of getting paid for providing software services.
  4. If he wouldn't try hard selling software for an obsolete flight simulator, wouldn't he have more time develop orbiter add-ons? Maybe we should pirate his commercial software even more and instead donate some money directly to him.
  5. Honestly, if you think money is a problem, donate money directly to him. I doubt we will see more add-ons per orbiter version from him that way, but at least it is a more honest form of trading, than doing argumentations, which even the catholic church does no longer consider rational ("If you pay us money for building the saint peter cathedral, your soul will be spared from hell fire").
See? It is not about piracy - it is about misunderstandings and intentionally flawed argumentations. If you don't pirate a Britney Spears CD, this will not give a talented newcomer artist better chances to get build up as new star. It will convince music industry managers to invest even more money into Britney. And it is not like Britney needs the money for making orbiter add-ons in her free time.

And if you pirate a Britney Spears CD (which I recommend out of political reasons - she would get money from me if she would stop singing and just dances partially nude instead, as much as fits in the underwear), this will not hinder a talented musician from publishing his music or getting famous. Most musicians did not see a major label treatment from their beginning on. Most start in a small familiar independent label, release a few very crappy debut CDs, which will later be considered "cult" and go on tour until they do not know where they play this night. Until their fame exceeds the capabilities of the independent label and a bigger label is needed...and with the artists having the choice of selecting the best contract, as the major labels will then need a replacement for Britney, after she became unbearable for the public.

If you like Britney Spears, buy her music (or do it my way). And if you don't like her, don't listen to her music, don't download it as well, just ignore it. Better visit a concert of a small band in your hometown. And buy a CD if you like the band, ideally directly from the band. Most smaller bands also like getting in contact with their fans and appreciate it if you take the time after the concert to tell them how you liked it. They are just humans, too.
 
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Wow!! That's interesting. You are living the opposite of what we are living here.
There is no IP culture here.

I recall that right after Final Fantasy movie came out, I bought a pirate copy, and since I liked it very much I bought it on DVD, as my way to support such kind of 3D arts. So in my case, RIAA and MPAA logic failed in the sense that piracy causes them losses. In my case, a pirate copy caused me to buy an original.
 
The inherently flawed concept of owning what amounts to a string of ones and zeros has to be stomped out of the capitalist mindset, especially as more and more of what amounts to humanity's possessions is represented or made representable as such pure information. Could abolishing intellectual property be a necessary first step in abolishing property?
 
The inherently flawed concept of owning what amounts to a string of ones and zeros has to be stomped out of the capitalist mindset, especially as more and more of what amounts to humanity's possessions is represented or made representable as such pure information. Could abolishing intellectual property be a necessary first step in abolishing property?
How then are people who produce pure information (authors, artists, software engineers) supposed to put food on the table, if they cannot be paid for their work?
 
I'm with the pirate party, SOMEBODY needs to keep the Internet from turning into yet another extension of government and big business's will like TV has become. This is the last true free speech medium on the planet, and it needs to be protected from thugs like the RIAA and telecom giants that want to destroy all that freedom and turn it into Cable 2.0, where there are no websites that aren't corporate sponsored and owned.

Also, that whole "1 copy pirated = 1 copy's worth of lost money" argument is pure crap. Its stupid to assume anyone would or wouldn't have bought that song, software, etc.

Besides, they tried to say the same old crap when cassette tapes, VHS, and burnable CDs/DVDs came out, and the movie/music industry has yet to go out of business.
 
Also, that whole "1 copy pirated = 1 copy's worth of lost money" argument is pure crap. Its stupid to assume anyone would or wouldn't have bought that song, software, etc.

Besides, they tried to say the same old crap when cassette tapes, VHS, and burnable CDs/DVDs came out, and the movie/music industry has yet to go out of business.
However, X copies pirated = Y copies' worth of lost money, where X is larger than Y and Y is non-zero.

Now everyone thinks: "If I can get the exact same piece of software for free, why should I pay for it?" And so they all go pirate it. Now the software developer makes no money and goes out of business, and whoops--no more software from them.

The reason that the movie/music industry didn't go out of business due to copying of cassette tapes, VHS, and burnable CDs/DVDs is simple--it was easier to just buy the product, rather than to find someone who has it and then make a copy. Sure, there were people who did it anyway, but for most, the convenience of having the real thing was there.

With software, there's no such convenience, and with high-bandwidth connections on the rise it's becoming easier to get the software pirated than it is to get it fairly. What's keeping everyone from pirating the software? Three reasons:
1) Not everyone knows about software piracy--it's still an "above-average computer knowledge" sort of thing
2) Many people still don't have sufficient internet connections for it, so paying for it is worth it for them
3) Many people don't believe that they deserve everything for free and will still pay for it even if it is easier to get it pirated.

Number 3 is the big one--my attitude is, if you pirate a piece of software, and you use it for more than a couple hours, you should pay for it. Why? Because you're paying the developer for the enjoyment you get out of it, and if the developer doesn't get paid, then they stop making software.

Large-scale software piracy is going to have the exact opposite effect of what the pirates want. Rather than software becoming legally free for everyone (the stated goal), developers seeking to stay in business will switch to a subscription model that can't be pirated (like WoW). Now everyone ends up paying more.

If the reason you're pirating something is due to the "DRM makes it unusable" argument...Buy it, and then go get the pirated DRM-free version.
 
Okay, now how about the companies that almost give customers an incentive to pirate their products because they riddle them with DRM software the bugs the game and makes it impossible to install it more than a couple of times? Why should anyone pay the exorbitant amount of money they charge for games now if the company punishes them for doing so, when not only can they get it for free, but they can use it how and whenever they want?

I applaud companies like Stardock who completely leave copy protection out of their games and instead spend their time and money developing downloadable content, because they know people respect that and will pay to support them as such.
 
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