Poll Which spacecraft do you think is the most realistic

[Keatah]

How is the saturn v more realistic than the space shuttle? Both vehicles have a real history with real flights..

 

[Kyle]

If Space Shuttle Ultra was an option i'd vote for it!
Then maybe Shuttle fleet.

 

[chourave]

Whitout hover a delta glider can be realistic.

The 18 m by 18 m delta wing can contain:

(1800 x 1800) / 2 = 1620000 cm2 of surface

1620000 x 10 = 16200000 cm3 of fuel

or 16200 litre of fuel or water
or 16.2 tons of water or fuel.

The big fact is how to make a 162 m2 perfectly baked triangle of carbon fiber.
and

How powerfull must be the lift off rocket.

 

[Sky Captain]

The problem with Deltagliders I think is not the amount of fuel on board but their engines which would require some sort of compact nuclear power source to make possible. If aneutronic fusion turns out to be feasible then it might be possible to build a small Deltaglider like SSTO spaceplane.

 

[chourave]

You really think it's impossible with a v2 like engine.

This plane burn all the fuel in less than 2 hours.

2 hours of fuel is compatible with a v2 like engine.

 

[RisingFury]

The problem with Deltagliders I think is not the amount of fuel on board but their engines which would require some sort of compact nuclear power source to make possible. If aneutronic fusion turns out to be feasible then it might be possible to build a small Deltaglider like SSTO spaceplane.

If aneutronic fusion becomes reality, a DeltaGlider-ish type setup would be the last thing it would be mounted on.

 

[Sky Captain]

You really think it's impossible with a v2 like engine.

This plane burn all the fuel in less than 2 hours.

2 hours of fuel is compatible with a v2 like engine.

What do you mean by v2 like engine?

No known chemical fuel has required energy density to create DG`s 40000 m/s exhaust. Such engine could be possible only if powered from nuclear energy source.

 

[Urwumpe]

You really think it's impossible with a v2 like engine.

This plane burn all the fuel in less than 2 hours.

2 hours of fuel is compatible with a v2 like engine.

Are we talking about the same V-2?

The DG has a specific impulse of 55000 m/s, the V-2 was just around 3000 m/s.

 

[Sky Captain]

If aneutronic fusion becomes reality, a DeltaGlider-ish type setup would be the last thing it would be mounted on.

Well, I was thinking more general - a small SSTO spaceplane with roughly DG size and mass. Doesn`t have to be exact 1:1 copy of Orbiter`s DG.

 

[chourave]

When I say V2 it's the Von Brown like rocket engine.

Can Delta glider or dgiv can really goes on space dock on iss and come back with a V-2 like engine and 16 tons of fuel.

DanSteph himself said the DgIV engine is too powerfull to be realistic but a less powerfull versions is possible.

 

[Sky Captain]

When I say V2 it's the Von Brown like rocket engine.

Can Delta glider or dgiv can really goes on space dock on iss and come back with a V-2 like engine and 16 tons of fuel.

DanSteph himself said the DgIV engine is too powerfull to be realistic but a less powerfull versions is possible.

It`s impossible with chemical rocket engine. To put 1 ton of cargo in orbit you need to burn ~ 13 - 20 tons of fuel (depending of what type of fuel is used) and empty DG weighs ~12 tons. There is no way around it - it is a hard physical limitation due to energy density of chemical fuels. Only a nuclear engine could propel DG into orbit while expelling omly 16 tons of propellant.

 

[Urwumpe]

When I say V2 it's the Von Brown like rocket engine.

Wernher von Braun. While "Braun" means brown in German language and sounds almost the same, it is not right to translate names.

Can Delta glider or dgiv can really goes on space dock on iss and come back with a V-2 like engine and 16 tons of fuel.

No, it can't. For just reaching LEO (not docking to the ISS), a V-2 would need to be 95.4% of the take off mass to contain fuel. The DG is about 50% fuel.

Even with a Space Shuttle main engine (which actually produces more thrust as the DG engines), the DG would need to be 86.7% fuel. While still more as the DG has, this mass ratio is in the range for non-winged, expendable vehicles.

DanSteph himself said the DgIV engine is too powerfull to be realistic but a less powerfull versions is possible.

Yes, he is right with it in both thrust and specific impulse, but this does not make it equivalent to a V-2. You could reduce the technology a bit, but not infinitely.

 

[Hielor]

You really think it's impossible with a v2 like engine.

This plane burn all the fuel in less than 2 hours.

2 hours of fuel is compatible with a v2 like engine.

It's not how long it takes to burn the fuel, but how much thrust you get for burning that fuel (the specific impulse).

 

[chourave]

You must be right, I finded a way to make a hybrid delta glider helped with learjet engine, and with my short and uncomplete calculation the conclusion is :

The glider will need 4 learjet engine (1,13 tons each) and consume 2 or 4 tons of fuel to reach mach 0.9.

This mean the weight of a glider without learjet engine must be 8 tons, chassis, covering, life support, misterious space engine, etc. It will need a lot of perfectly baked carbon fiber.

It's also mean only 8 tons of fuel left for the misterious space engine and the accellarion to mack 27 plus.

 

[Urwumpe]

The glider will need 4 learjet engine (1,13 tons each) and consume 2 or 4 tons of fuel to reach mach 0.9.

And be limited there, since the learjet engine is subsonic. You can't use it for accelerating past Mach 0.95. Welcome to the reality of spaceflight. No air for combustion up there, and when you want to fly at speeds beyond Mach 3, you will need to use engines without compressors and turbines, since the turbine temperature will be outside the range of existing materials.

This mean the weight of a glider without learjet engine must be 8 tons, chassis, covering, life support, misterious space engine, etc. It will need a lot of perfectly baked carbon fiber.

The structural mass of the DG would be the least of the worries, it is perfectly in the range of existing spacecraft technology. The engines and the heat shield for reentry is unobtainium.

 

[chourave]

Yes reality is hard.

We will need a top gun enginer to make a exotic turbine helped hybrid scram engine (the turbine is only for low speed propultion).

And maybe asbestos enamels.

If it's possible of curse.

 

[RisingFury]

Well, I was thinking more general - a small SSTO spaceplane with roughly DG size and mass. Doesn`t have to be exact 1:1 copy of Orbiter`s DG.

A small SSTO would be the last thing a nuclear rocket would be used for.

What? You gonna put an increadibly expensive fusion engine onto a space plane so you can haul a 500 kg sat into orbit? I think not...

 

[Brycesv1]

then again, it would probably be Americans launching this thing and we all know how illogical we can be...

 

[Sky Captain]

A small SSTO would be the last thing a nuclear rocket would be used for.

What? You gonna put an increadibly expensive fusion engine onto a space plane so you can haul a 500 kg sat into orbit? I think not...

Yeah it would be impractical as a cargo launcher, but then again not everything demands 100 t payload capability. For example I`m sure Air Force would quickly find a role for SSTO spaceplane of DG size. Surprise espionage overflights are first thing that comes to mind.

 

[Hielor]

Yeah it would be impractical as a cargo launcher, but then again not everything demands 100 t payload capability. For example I`m sure Air Force would quickly find a role for SSTO spaceplane of DG size. Surprise espionage overflights are first thing that comes to mind.

There's nothing "surprise" about a rocket launch. Moreover, using a manned spaceplane for such an action is complete overkill.