I've never understood how the Camaro gets such a low number of horses from such a large number of cylinders and liters. Can't stand those cars, even worse than the 911.
Question Why to buy a new car?
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I've never understood how the Camaro gets such a low number of horses from such a large number of cylinders and liters. Can't stand those cars, even worse than the 911.
Urwumpe
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Because they are designed to have a large cylinder volume because teenagers buy by cubic inches, but not be especially strong, because this way cheaper materials can be used?
Andy44
owner: Oil Creek Astronautix
If the new Camaro will look anything like the recently shown prototypes, I'll pass. Chevy tried to go retro and futuristic at the same time. Fail.
The Ford Mustang and Dodge Challenger, by comparison, have done very well at capturing the cool musclecar looks of the 1970s while upgrading the insides to modern expectations. The Challenger, in particular, is very impressive. It actually is as badass as it looks.
The Ford Mustang and Dodge Challenger, by comparison, have done very well at capturing the cool musclecar looks of the 1970s while upgrading the insides to modern expectations. The Challenger, in particular, is very impressive. It actually is as badass as it looks.
The 6-cylinder ones are typically not that great yes, but the 8-cylinder engines tend to just be the same that was in the corvette a couple years before. If you look at the specs for the 2010 camaros (http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro/pdf/2010+Camaro+Specifications.pdf) it's really not that bad. I'm waiting for a Z28, which will undoubtedly push those numbers up noticeably.
The Mustang is too popular. Everyone has one, so they're nothing special.
I like the styling of the Camaro, and according to people who get paid to think about it (e.g., http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=124937 ) it will outperform the Challenger. The styling is rather close to the Challenger--I don't see how you can claim one is awesome and the other is pitiful when really the only major immediate difference is in the grill.
But then again, I guess I'm weird when it comes to styling. I actually liked the new GTO (and if I'd had the means, probably would've gotten one of the later ones) even though it wasn't as aggressive as most sports cars--I kind of liked the subdued look.
Andy44
owner: Oil Creek Astronautix
A buddy of mine once had a 1968 GTO, and I helped him install a Pontiac 400 motor in it and a four-speed transmission. Holly four-barrel carb, low-gear back end, and headers. He bought it in North Carolina, where it had never experienced salted roads, and the body and upholstery were sweet. But this car was the definition of muscle car. It would snap and bark at the stoplight, and the slightest movement of the clutch would give you whiplash. When he trounced on it and took off, it would blow off other cars' doors, and change the rotation of the Earth. The speedometer needle jumped to the right, and the gas guage needle jumped to the left. Loud and angry. That car rocked. I often wonder if he still has it.
PS.: I agree that the Mustang is no longer cool. It was 3 years ago, though, gotta admit.
PS.: I agree that the Mustang is no longer cool. It was 3 years ago, though, gotta admit.
Yeah, they don't really make them the way they used to. Although overall I think we're in a better place than we used to be, what with gas mileage up and emissions down, but still.
When they first introduced the new styling it was kinda cool, yeah. But then it got to the point where every car maker was riding the "retro" wave, and you saw a new Mustang on every corner. Not so cool anymore.
The V6 version of both the Camaro and Mustang is for people who want to look like they own a sports car, but don't actually care that much about performance and/or don't have as large of a budget.
That was one of the things I liked about the new GTO, especially when they put the 400hp engine in for the '05 and '06 model years: there was no V6 model, so the cars didn't make it into the hands of posers who try to look cool without going all the way. If you see a new GTO, you know he's got a V8 under there.
tblaxland
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Let me guess, you were in your late teens/early twenties?
My first two cars (a 1979 Holden Gemini and a 1977 Subaru Leone) were my most loved cars, despite having half the power and nearly all the weight of my current ride, and crappy handling to boot 
.They were also the most heavily modded of all my cars - not mechanically, but electrically. I was studying electrical engineering at the time and working at Jaycar Electronics (a bit like Radio Shack?). Both cars benefited from suped-up stereo systems, home made electronic ignition, driving lights, air horns and additional interior mood lighting. I even installed a talking clock in the Subaru using the guts of an old watch whose display no longer worked that, at the push of a button on the dash or on the hour, would kindly announce the time through the 6.1 speaker 400W audio system. In a similar vein, the Gemini had a home-made talking headlight reminder system that played this message: "You left your headlights on, Stupid!" :lol:
Urwumpe
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My first car was a 45 HP Volkswagen Polo. Which was perfect for my driving skill: It was damn agile, robust and the repairs had been not too expensive. I needed some new shock absorbers every other year, but otherwise, it accepted all kinds of mistreatment you can imagine... from doing a 180 in a dead end street, over racing over farming roads at 80 km/h, to meter long jumps over railroad tracks.
The only thing it did not like was exceeding 150 km/h on the autobahn during the summer. First you had been able see how the temperature needle goes into the red line after you rapidly slowed down below 80 km/h. And two weeks later enjoy the miracles of a head gasket damage - coolant gone, open coolant tank, nearly explosive decompression, coolant back again...
The only thing it did not like was exceeding 150 km/h on the autobahn during the summer. First you had been able see how the temperature needle goes into the red line after you rapidly slowed down below 80 km/h. And two weeks later enjoy the miracles of a head gasket damage - coolant gone, open coolant tank, nearly explosive decompression, coolant back again...
Andy44
owner: Oil Creek Astronautix
My first car was also a VW, a 1979 Scirocco. I really like that car, but it was destroyed in a rear-end collision one rainy day...
@ Simonpro: Muscle cars are not hard to understand.
Primary purpose: to go fast when the light turns green, humiliating the guy in the ricer next to you.
Secondary purposes: To look cool and try to impress females while cruising around the local hang-out spot with loud music blasting out of the speakers. Depending on the era you grew up in, this music may consist of Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Metallica, Alice in Chains, etc. Coldplay will never be heard coming from a muscle car when operated by its true owner.
@ Simonpro: Muscle cars are not hard to understand.
Primary purpose: to go fast when the light turns green, humiliating the guy in the ricer next to you.
Secondary purposes: To look cool and try to impress females while cruising around the local hang-out spot with loud music blasting out of the speakers. Depending on the era you grew up in, this music may consist of Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Metallica, Alice in Chains, etc. Coldplay will never be heard coming from a muscle car when operated by its true owner.
tblaxland
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Your rear-end or his? My Gemini suffered the same fate when rear-ended by another driver - just two weeks after I had gone to the trouble of doing a rust repair and repaint on the boot lidMy first car was also a VW, a 1979 Scirocco. I really like that car, but it was destroyed in a rear-end collision one rainy day...
I think you have these backward...
And if you had a Holden Sandman, the other purpose was to impress girls in other ways whilst parked :lol:. Perhaps some pictures would help explain:
Andy44
owner: Oil Creek Astronautix
Wow, talk about truth in advertising (the buyer hopes, anyway)!
tblaxland
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They were only ever exported to South Africa and New Zealand, IIRC. The Sandman was a performance modification of the less glamorous and more utilitarian Holden Kingswood panel van. The nickname: Shaggin' wagon. A true Aussie legend
tblaxland
O-F Administrator
:rofl:In a way, I guess. They are traditional, and fierce, rivals in both the Australia domestic car market and motorsport. Sorry for my amusement but it is a bit like asking if there is a link between Ferrari and Porsche. Holden, BTW, is the Australian arm of General Motors, which trades as Vauxhall in the UK.
Back to the earlier subject of muscle cars, the Monaro is one of Australia's most famous and is Holden through and through. It was exported to the UK and US (Pontiac GTO). EDIT: Only the third generation from about 2005-2007 was exported.
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Notebook
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No probs, I knew of Holden, but couldn't remember who they were tied up with.
I think Morris or Austin as part of what was the British Motor Company/Holdings had some manufacturing capacity in Australia? That was back in the early Seventies, before UK car manufacturing imploded.
Edit:- this is what I remember
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Motor_Corporation_(Australia)
Don't remember this though...
http://www.engheritage-sydney.org.au/plaq/BMC/BMC_Apprentices_Marching_Practice.html
N.
I think Morris or Austin as part of what was the British Motor Company/Holdings had some manufacturing capacity in Australia? That was back in the early Seventies, before UK car manufacturing imploded.
Edit:- this is what I remember
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Motor_Corporation_(Australia)
Don't remember this though...
http://www.engheritage-sydney.org.au/plaq/BMC/BMC_Apprentices_Marching_Practice.html
N.
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GregBurch
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Since the topic has drifted toward one of my life-long obsessions, I offer a little essay I wrote a few years ago on the subject. In amongst the material discussed here is an answer to the the "why muscle cars?" question:
http://gregburch.net/cars/hotrod.html
http://gregburch.net/cars/hotrod.html
Urwumpe
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My first car was also a VW, a 1979 Scirocco. I really like that car, but it was destroyed in a rear-end collision one rainy day...
I managed to kill the car of my mother that way, while I was in the German Army. Was driving home and made the error to stop at the first stop sign past the base gates, to let a truck pass.
A drunken warrant NCO managed it to ram his Audi into the rear of the VW Polo of my mother and destroy both cars (impact velocity was around 55 km/h, from the distance my car got pushed, even though I was standing on the brakes). It was his birthday and he just wanted to buy some more beer.
Well, my car managed to drive home slowly (the whole right side was about 10 cm ahead of the left). And it was the moment, when I realized how good it can be to have friends... the guy attempted to ignore me and not tell me his insurance data. Until after being nice for two days, I called a friend. My friend served inside the company staff of the guy. And my friend told his First Sergeant about the incident. About 20 minutes later, I got a phone call, of the warrant officer, who told me his insurance data, with the sound of a very angry First Sergeant in the background.
According to my friend, it took the First Sergeant only 5 Minutes to literally tow the warrant NCO from the exercise area into his office, and the remaining 15 minutes to have a very aggressive conversation with him.
It is always good to have friends.
Was still my worst accident, and was the first real accident (aside of many scratches when learning the dimensions of my car) after I got my drivers license.
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