Sorry for all the Quotes, i just want to make sure I cover everything...
Looking back at that image, there's no way small kids could reach the overhead (maybe that's just eye candy), but she can't see over the MIP and the reach to the consoles is quite a stretch. Its obvious, too, that they're not going for fidelity but 'feel'; so as long as panels are full of 'stuff' I think we're fine with going smaller.
That's what I was thinking as well. To me, that seems like an awful large, almost too large simulated cockpit. I have seen the inside to several Space Shuttles via pictures, and I don't even remember them being THAT spread out. Also, I'm just going off of scale by the little girl, but I don't even think I could see over the panels.. That's pretty high, and I'm not that tall
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I'm wondering how space camp/academy handles this? Someone around here must have gone. Landon, have you had any conversations with them?
I'm guilty... I went to Space Camp, Space Academy and Advanced Space Academy. Let me explain how they handle things: Not very well in my opinion. First of all, the group your in is pretty large, which in Space Camp and Space Academy means you have very little time to experiance any one simulation. In the Advanced program, it makes it easier because you get to choose rather you want to be a Pilot or Mission Specialist... I went for Pilot, and got to fly their shuttle sims a few times. The problem with Advanced Space Academy comes in when you have a bunch of people wanting to be pilots, and theres only 2 positions open on the extended duration missions. During the 24 hour EDM, I was stuck as the flight director in mission control... Never end got on the shuttle during that mission. However, on one of the 4 hour missions, I was able to take the reins of Commander, which was pretty cool.
Also, Space Camps shuttle sims are pretty unrealistic in my opinion. When I was going there, I though they where amazing... When I downloaded Orbiter for the first time, and tried to fly "Atlantis" like I flew the Sims at Space Camp... Did'nt work to well.
Basically, Space Camp has 2 or 3 Sims I beleive (can't remember for sure). Both are the same scale, which is about what you saw in that image I posted (although they display outside the widows was about 95% duller than that one). Pretty much, the kids in Space Camp did not get much time in the shuttle Sim at all... Only the Academy and Advanced Academy got to spend any real time there. From what I remember of Space Camp, we never got to "fly" the shuttle, or if we did, it was not for any extended amount of time... Just a "Try it out" type thing.
It might be good to scale the seating to 85% but keep the shell at 100% so more could fit in the simulator.
Important thing more me is this: I want to make it friendly to both younger kids AND adults. I'm not sure about scale yet, but I have ideas on placement. While "realism" is great, I want things to be a little more scaled down in terms of the window height looking out into space, so we can bring the overhead panels closer. That way adults AND kids can reach them with only minimal effort. We don't need windows any taller than 1.5', 1.75' at most. Also, the center console panel does not need to be that wide, 2' should be plenty wide enough. We also need to scale down the height of the MIP, it does not need to be "real" huge.
Pretty much, a majority of the scaling will have to happen vertical-wise. Horizontally speaking, shrinking the width of the center console is a good idea as well as making the pilots right and commanders left panels less wider.
Overall, I'm thinking a total width of 12-14' in total would be more fit to this scenario, even though it may be a little less realistic in size. Also, bringing the overhead controls /ceiling lower is must.
Also, keep in mind, I'm still debating on building at least 2 of these, maybe 3. If we go with 3, 1 can be built for smaller people. TBD...
My conclusion is that was masked in, in Photoshop. It simply isn't behaving like a projected screen would look in a photo lit like that.
I thought that as well. To "High Res" to be any real image there. Unless course they really are in space
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Perhaps a 85% model for seniors and 70% flight deck for juniors. This might be a time to break out the old cardboard mockup process to find a workable size. Movable consoles might be an approach, too, but you'd still need a shorter MIP. Interesting. . .
That's a good idea. In fact, I'm gonna build a cardboard mockup this coming weekend, and get some actual dimensions that might work for what we need. I'll have to get my younger sister (age 10) to try it out, get an idea of what will work for both a child and an adult.
Yes, it is called panoramic mirror collimated display.
I'm trying to build one. Not sure I will succeed.
Looked it up. Very interesting... Sounds like a good idea. Let me know if you get it to working!
Might be cool to have an Apollo, Gemini and Mercury setup in the sim building too. The big issue is that you can't have a large quantity of people in a captsule sim like a shuttle build. Also capsule sims aren't as visually stunning to fly as shuttles with many big windows looking out on a panorama. That might be addressed by rotating the kids through the sims so everyone gets at least a bit of fun in the older capsules too.
Yeah... I think it would be neat, thats for sure. Since a 3-seater would limit the number of people inside at a time, it could not be used for any real "extended" missions. We'll have to see how things play out, once we get the shuttle(s) designed and a cost figure up for them. Building an actual capsul seems like it may be more difficult than the shuttle Sim...
Have you come up with enrollment figures for the camp?
This actually runs into the quote below, but on the enrollment figures: We are looking at around 30 Campers per session in the Junior Astronaut Training program, and 16 Campers per session in the Advanced Astronaut Program. The low ratio in the advanced program will allow for each person to do more than if they were in a large group.
Now is where we run into the below quote:
I'd almost suggest fielding 2 shuttles with airlocks to the ISS connecting on both ends. That way you could do a bunch of different scenarios like a shuttle rescue or redundancy when one simpit needs maintenance you have the other ensuring no downtime.
This has crossed my mind. By building 2 shuttles, it would double our number of students, therefore make the camp more profitable to run. space Camp actually has 3 shuttle sims, I beleive.
This gonna sound kind of stupid, but I always thought it would be neat to do an asteroid mission like in the movie Armageddon... Totally unreal, but still it would be awsome. We could send up 2 shuttles to land of the astroid, have the kids get out into a simulated "astroid" themed room and plant a nuck in the ground, then come back....
I'm not even sure that landing on an asteroid is possible in Orbiter though... Just a thought.
Another thing to ponder, unmanned remote roaver mission control and space telescope programs to put into the mix. The mission control doesn't need to be shuttle specific. It could be used diversely with both manned and unmanned simulation. Kids might have a short attention span, therefore it would be great to have a diverse lineup of simulation for them to experience using the same physical layout.
Wow, I'm getting some really good ideas from you guys here.
Wow, Okay, I think I've gotten most things out of the way... Sorry it took me so long to get back to you, I been working my regulare job, while trying to get both the Museum and this project up and running... Very time consumming.
Thanks!
My standard toggle is the Jameco R13-28B-01 at ~$4. Radio Shack sells essentially the same thing for a little more. You'll also need some on-off-on and on-off-(on) that are a little more. Since this is basically a commercial application, you don't want to get cheap components as kids will beat this thing up and they'll always be breaking. I wouldn't get any toggle with a plastic handle, for instance. For smaller hands (less force), you might have to go with miniature switches with the molded extensions. You might want to make a trip to a local electronics store and get a couple samples to experiment with.
