Soyuz Lunar Mission

[DanM]

You can't; it wasn't designed with that in mind.

So, I'd have to do all the programming myself and create a new ship with the same mesh if I wanted that?

 

[Izack]

Or just use a different Soyuz addon that won't explode.

"Let's not, but say we did."

 

[mc_]

Tried something like this some time ago. Here is the thread, "To the moon and, back (i hope)" (warning: russian language).

Thorton's Soyuz survived a double-dip reentry on 9300 m/s, with PeA = 70km.

 

[N_Molson]

So "my" idea of sending a BlockDM in lunar orbit should work

---------- Post added at 05:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------

I've modelled a (female) docking adapter for the BlockDM. It's designed to dock with a Soyuz or another BlockDM (with a male adapter)

I'm not sure how much it should weight. What's really inside ? A docking mechanism weights around 250 kgs, from what I know... Some internal structure is required to absorb the docking impact, and also to withstand the various forces (centrifugal, acceleration...) Electronics ? (it has to perform an automatic rendez-vous and docking). All ideas are welcome, the goal is to make it the most realistic we can

I would estimate the total mass to 500 kilograms. What do you think of it ? Of course, the lighter, the better ! Also that module isn't designed to provide extra room for the Soyuz crew. In my mission plan, it's going to be docked with another blockDM.

From a graphic point of view, it's untextured and would look better with a few details (docking target, docking radar...)

 

[Urwumpe]

I've modelled a (female) docking adapter for the BlockDM. It's designed to dock with a Soyuz or another BlockDM (with a male adapter)

I'm not sure how much it should weight. What's really inside ? A docking mechanism weights around 250 kgs, from what I know... Some internal structure is required to absorb the docking impact, and also to withstand the various forces (centrifugal, acceleration...) Electronics ? (it has to perform an automatic rendez-vous and docking). All ideas are welcome, the goal is to make it the most realistic we can

I would estimate the total mass to 500 kilograms. What do you think of it ? Of course, the lighter, the better ! Also that module isn't designed to provide extra room for the Soyuz crew. In my mission plan, it's going to be docked with another blockDM.

From a graphic point of view, it's untextured and would look better with a few details (docking target, docking radar...)

In reality, you would have something like the Pirs docking adapter in front of it, some storage, additional hab space (that is not really needed)...

You just need the passive Kurs equipment, since the Soyuz would be better suited as active vehicle.

A second DM would not be needed, instead you could recycle the propellant tanks of a DM for additional propellant, that could be already launched with the DM.

 

[Thorton]

In my mission plan, it's going to be docked with another blockDM.

How are you suppose to do this? DM has no translation engines.

Also, If someone creates realistic lunar lander, i will modify DM and Soyuz for 4-launch lunar expedition.

 

[Urwumpe]

Also, If someone creates realistic lunar lander, i will modify DM and Soyuz for 4-launch lunar expedition.

How realistic do you need it?

 

[Wishbone]

Was that (a 4 launch mammoth project) ever considered? After doing a simulated Falcon + Kicker EOR lunar flyby mission I'm slightly concerned about reliability and phasing time.

 

[Thorton]

How realistic do you need it?

I'm OK with almost anything which is based on current technology level.

Was that (a 4 launch mammoth project) ever considered?

Who cares? It could be done just for fun

 

[N_Molson]

How are you suppose to do this? DM has no translation engines.

That's a good point ! :hmm:

A second DM would not be needed, instead you could recycle the propellant tanks of a DM for additional propellant, that could be already launched with the DM.

You mean launching an "extended" blockDM with extra propellant tanks ? Is it technically possible ? (I mean, the whole thing would be heavier, which could cause structural problems ?). That would solve the "lunar orbit" problem, and the upper docking problem pointed by Thornton.

 

[Urwumpe]

Was that (a 4 launch mammoth project) ever considered? After doing a simulated Falcon + Kicker EOR lunar flyby mission I'm slightly concerned about reliability and phasing time.

Reliability might be tough, but you could sure do a twin-LOR mission with a really light-weight lander.

1. Launch Lander (keep inert)
2. Launch DM #1
3. Activate descent propulsion on Lander, Dock Lander (active craft) to DM #1
4. TLI Lander, LOI by DM #1.
5. Hibernate Lander in Lunar orbit.
6. Launch Soyuz with crew
7. Launch DM #2
8. Dock Soyuz to DM#2
9. TLI Soyuz, LOI by DM #2
10. Dock Soyuz to Lander
11. Undock
12. Descent
13. Lunar surface activities
14. Ascent
15. Dock to Soyuz (Lander is active)
16. Undock Lander, TEI by Soyuz
17. Reentry

The main problem would be the limited DV of Soyuz, this would need to be increased a lot. But a two person lander with the same mass as the modified Soyuz might be possible.

The cheat would be launching every DM exactly one sidereal day after the respective spacecraft, this way docking would be much simpler.

 

[Wishbone]

/me likes it. As an onlooker, mind you. Do I understand correctly that the lander is a bare-bones bug-type vehicle without a pressurised cabin?

 

[Thorton]

Our problem with limited DV of Soyuz could be solved with Fregat upper stage attached to DM #2. Fregat could provide LOI as well as TEI burs, but it would be "reliability nightmare" because of additional numbers of redocking on lunar orbit.

a bare-bones bug-type vehicle without a pressurised cabin?

Dont you think it would be extensively extreme?

 

[N_Molson]

Mh, that LK would probably be a serious candidate, no ? Even better, it has been tested in LEO during the space race... Total Mass (with propellant) : 5560 kilograms.

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/lk.html

 

[Urwumpe]

I'm OK with almost anything which is based on current technology level.

Well, then... just throw some fitting Russian spaceflight technology into the blender...

The pressure vessel of the Lander could be made by recycling a Pirs / Soyuz OM, would just need a small fitting window for landing. A small life support system, HGA, ascent propulsion could be made from a ICBM stage, thus should have the suitable thrust to weight and storage times. Descend propulsion would be harder to get... If the total mass is set around 15-20 tons, 11.75 - 15 tons would be descent stage mass (at equal ISP)... Maybe a Briz-M stage would fit into the concept.

Who cares? It could be done just for fun

Exactly. Nobody dies here, if the challenge fails. A few dockings more are a normal challenge here.

---------- Post added at 07:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------

The problem with the old lander: It needs a crasher stage, usually a Block D.

 

[DanM]

Also, If someone creates realistic lunar lander, i will modify DM and Soyuz for 4-launch lunar expedition.

I was thinking about making one if I ever do learn how to develop addons. It would be a fictitious ESA or NASA lander, and the stack that would propel it would be made up of Block-Ds and IUSs. Then I'd use UCGO or make a hab, which would be ESA or NASA, giving an international moon program in Orbiter.

Of course, this is all a big if. I'm still illiterate in any programming language.

This could be another OF mission, OFLO (Orbiter Forum Lunar Outpost).

 

[N_Molson]

An interesting project. I'm ready to help, as long as I don't have to deal with animations or virtual cockpits, which are still too complex for me. :thumbup:

Also, I think it would be better to stick with existing russian technology (cheaper, and compatible).

 

[Urwumpe]

An interesting project. I'm ready to help, as long as I don't have to deal with animations or virtual cockpits, which are still too complex for me. :thumbup:

No problems with that, but somebody else would need to do the meshes, since my meshing attempts are rather painful. :lol:

(LOL... they used the Tetris soundtrack in a classic rendition for a documentary about traveling by train from Berlin to Bejing)

But anyway... we are still not even knowing any mass property, that could be needed...

 

[DanM]

Alright, so I guess I'm now the Director of OFLO, which will focus on a realistic moon-base that will be operated using existing or modern-level technology. We could start on a circumlunar flight, then work our way up to landings and running a base.

 

[Urwumpe]

Alright, so I guess I'm now the Director of OFLO, which will focus on a realistic moon-base that will be operated using existing or modern-level technology. We could start on a circumlunar flight, then work our way up to landings and running a base.

Fine do that.

But I just want to land on the moon. Without any such overhead like a orbiter forum mission. I have already OFMM as my sin, and I can't get out of it.