Idea insta-combt add-on

[StevoPistolero]

I want space combat now! I tried learning C++, but it is over my head and not a priority at the moment. Maybe someone can make an add-on for me. It is completely different from the current methods being tried, which draw missiles and bombs.

It is really really simple.

I just need to know the distance from a ship and how long I am "in range". everything else is based off of that.

It is basically a lookup table. Each weapon has a different table.

Name=laser
regeneration=10 seconds
####Distance####probability_of_hit####Armor_Penetration
####20km############.15#############12mm

The enemy fires at the regeneration rate until it is out of ammo. Once you have accumulated the maximum damage, you die, or the scenario ends. You can count how many shots are fired, and specify in game how many shots you and your opponent have.

You could reverse this and attack an enemy ship as well. You hit the fire button, and it does damage to the enemy based on range to target and the probability of kill.

The lookup tables are just the beginning: from them you can introduce new features by introducing lookup tables that modify other lookup tables. But just to get started, there must be a basic system that detects range to target, and looks up a penetration value based on that range.

Here are some ways you could expand using this statistical method by modifying one weapon's lookup tables by other tables:

Hard to hit targets: You could also divide the p/h by average accelleration of the target, or multiply the armor penetration by the dV

Aiming: divide the p/h based on how far your nose is from the target.

Countermeasures: You can add countermeasures which apply a multiplier to the probability of kill values.

Orientation: You could modify the armor penetration depending on what side of the ship you are facing.

Shields: You could add shields this way too. Just a multiplier on the probability of hit value.

These other multipliers could exist as separate lookup tables, so you multiply the original weapon table value by a modifier table value, resulting in the modified damage value.

By adding tables, you can expand the library of weapons. You don't even have to have a combat-compatible ship: you set the armor value and weapons values in-game, turning any ship into an armed opponent.

This is essentially the method employed by Brigade Combat Team, Harpoon, Attack Vector: Tactical, and other wargames: you don't draw each missile, don't involve physics, or gravity, or drawing sprites. You just have a table with probability of kill and armor penetration for any given range. That is it.

Would anyone be able to to make this?

 

[Mojave]

OBSP is currently under developement, here is the developement thread

http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=17433

 

[StevoPistolero]

What I am proposing is fundamentally different than the OBSP in that it is probability based, not physics based. Also, the OBSP has been in testing for god knows how long. My implementation could be up and running in a few hours.

 

[Hielor]

What I am proposing is fundamentally different than the OBSP in that it is probability based, not physics based. Also, the OBSP has been in testing for god knows how long. My implementation could be up and running in a few hours.

So make it.

 

[StevoPistolero]

No, how about you make it, and I will make you something else in trade. I am a modeler, not a coder.

 

[deltawing777]

addon bartering..humm intresting concept

 

[Hielor]

No, how about you make it, and I will make you something else in trade. I am a modeler, not a coder.

Because I'm not the one who wants it so badly.

 

[Izack]

addon bartering..humm intresting concept

It won't work...no one needs addons, and people make them for free anyway...

 

[Carmen A]

This is very similar to classic strategy gaming and might be easier to implement than a full 3D battle system if you look at it the right way.

It will of course require some coding ninja skills to get the targeting system correct.

If you can setup a MFD text based gunnery system, and a damage modelling system and get two Arrow freighters to shoot each other with programming, it might work.

It might also be more realistic than 3D simulation in deep space naval action for this reason:

Lets say a futuristic space to space beam weapon has a range of 100,000km and you could ballistically lob missiles from Earth to Mars. Nothing will be in visual range. Heck, if you can see the target you'd be slaughtered by kinetic point defense and missiles anyway. A bit hard to armour a ship vs an oncoming depleted uranium slug at a closing velocity of 25km/s.

Just like in modern naval and BVR air warfare, electronics and situational awareness will win the day. Eyecandy is secondary.

--------

Here's how I think this could work.

First, the scripting should identify the ships involved in the battle scenario and give them hitpoints. For a basic working concept, we don't need armour. With your basic coding skills it should be enough to get the ships to fire.

Second, design a Steel Panthers style gunnery system. % chances to hit are used everywhere from X-Com to Mechcommander to even, roleplaying games. Nothing wrong with that. With a realistic set of percentages (target size, weapon type, etc dependant weapon performance, I can do this easily), you could have a suspension of belief so strong that a graphics-based combat model is more or less a liability.

I'd rather have the script-combat system playable first, if it can be done rapidly. How? Keep it simple, keep it entertaining with a few surprises thrown in.

Something like Smugglers IV is what you want for the basic first release. Later on you can develop something similar to Starships Unlimited 3, and of course, the Master of Orion series. By then you should have enough scripting capability to add in immersive elements of the combat, namely, graphics, sound, detailed subsystems damage.

And then you'll have Homeworld in Orbiter.

ps. For Smugglers IV, missiles are simulated by time to impact and countered by ECM activation each game "turn". Using a DnD style system you could easily break down a minute or an hour into various rounds and turns, perhaps even dynamically.

Interplanetary ranges are dealt with at high time acceleration using strategic weapons and counter-missile defenses. Maybe, hourly or even daily turns at realistic speeds are adequate.

In high orbit, lighter weapons are used - missiles, fighters, hypervelocity ballistics, ten minute turns.

If you ever get close enough to a target, or both sides have no more main weapons operable in a capital ship action, then close in to use point defences and assault weapons. This could more or less be real time.

 

[T.Neo]

Also, the OBSP has been in testing for god knows how long.

Ahem. OBSP has been in test, uh, development for "God knows how long", because it's actually being developed. A whole lot of really difficult, really intricate stuff has been figured out, is being figured out, and needs to be figured out.

Stuff like predicting where a bomb will land. Is it easy? Absolutely not, just ask RisingFury.

On top of that, we have real life as well. ETF and RisingFury have school, and I have... sitting around on an internet forum all day making rubbish posts about speculative spacecraft.

OBSP has made a huge amount of progress. The next version is going to come out soon enough. And it'll be awesome, trust me.

 

[escapetomsfate]

What I am proposing is fundamentally different than the OBSP in that it is probability based, not physics based. Also, the OBSP has been in testing for god knows how long. My implementation could be up and running in a few hours.

I think you're right about there being easier ways of making space combat in Orbiter.... But what we want is combat simulation right? Orbiter, by definition, is grounded on realism. If you just want to play a fun space combat game, there's a trillion flash games on the internet.

By all means please go ahead and make it But you might find that those simple ideas become a lot more complex when you implement them. It will almost definitely take more than a few hours...

If you want to speed up the release of OBSP, we're always ready to accept help.

 

[StevoPistolero]

I am so obsessed with getting this to work that am trying hard to teach myself C++, which I only need to know for Orbiter. I am learning C# now, and I hope to have a working space combat game of my own, but C# isn't sufficient for Orbiter. I could code this thing myself now in NetLogo, but that would do little good.

To ask me to program it myself is unreasonable, because that is not what I am good at. It is inefficient to expect everyone to be good at everything.
So while I teach myself how to program in C++ from scratch, I will offer you something that you are not capable of doing, a skill I can uniquely provide.

Because free doesn't seem to work...
I will offer to make a 3d print of any orbiter spacecraft (with or without stand) and mail it to you in exchange for a combat MFD system that does the following:

First there is an Attack MFD:

Calculates range to target
Calculates the relative velocity of the target to current vessel
calculates the target's angular distance from the nose of the current vessel
calculates the amount of "armor" based upon the mass of the vessel (as a percentage).
allows you to select your weapons which are stored as separate weapons files and can be easily added and modified by a layman.
allows you to look up based upon the weapon selected the probability of hit and the armor penetration, modified by the distance, relative vecloity, and angular distance off the nose.
Keeps track of the number of weapons fired, counting down from the number of shots specified in the weapons file.
Keeps tract of the cumulative armor damage.
Gives a reload delay between shots
Scores a "kill" when the armor damage level has been reached".

There is also a Defense MFD
Calculates the rate of closure from the pilot to the target.
Calculates your armor values based upon a percentage of your mass.
allows you to set the targets weapons in-game using the same separate weapons files.
tests to see if a target is "in range", i.e., will it score a non-zero damage.
once in range, automatically "fires" by using the weapons lookup tables. It assumes that you are on-the-nose of the target, even if you aren't.
records the damage done to you, printing "you are dead" if it exceeds your armor level.

The cost of the 3d print alone will cost roughly $150 dollars, which I would gladly pay to see this MFD operational. Frankly, I don't care much about the ability to see a bomb fall or the ability to see a rocket exhaust, tracers, and other bells and whistles. That is "back seat" stuff and so complicated, I don't have faith in the community's collective ability to turn this thing into a proper combat simulator. I am also not willing to wait; I want something now. I just need to pilot my ship to the target, and have an MFD tell me who wins, based on distance, closure, and number of shots fired, all done through lookup tables.

 

[Face]

I am so obsessed with getting this to work that am trying hard to teach myself C++, which I only need to know for Orbiter.

<snip>

The cost of the 3d print alone will cost roughly $150 dollars, which I would gladly pay to see this MFD operational.

So, what you are in fact offering is a paid addon-development. Someone gives you the addon meeting your specifications, you give'em 150$...

This would be something new and I'm not sure what it means regarding law. I guess it would be OK, but I don't know how international law is dealing with such job-offerings (taxes, tolls, etc.).

regards,
Face

 

[Wishbone]

We're in it for the fun and self-education. Money actually is of little importance (that's what the main daytime job is for).