Delta Glider EX - Extremely Low Thrust

[RangerPL]

So I downloaded the DG EX to fill the gap between the DGIV and the XR5.

I strapped it on an Energia (by kulch) and launch it into orbit with a small payload. Everything goes fine until it is time to separate from Energia at 200km altitude. Then, I fire up my engines, but the ship's engines don't have enough thrust to finish off my orbit insertion and I fall out of the sky.

I read all the documentation, and it is absolutely useless for this. I tried mucking around with the config files to increase my thrust, but it seems to be coded in the .dll, which I don't know how to edit.

Please help.

 

[willy88]

You can't edit DLLs.

 

[astrosammy]

Switch to manual control, go to around 115 km and hold it there. This should work better, because you have a lower vertical speed after cutoff.

 

[RangerPL]

*sigh* but i need to go to 200km to dock with my space station. O well, I guess i'll find another "shuttle-replacement". Anybody got any ideas?

 

[Master of Blades]

XR1?

 

[reverend]

Hi, i've done many DGEX Energia Piggybacks... I will record a playback scenario right now and upload it. Don't exceed 60Km and Energia will get you atleast 5000m/s toward orbital velocity.

 

[RangerPL]

I'm basically looking for a ship like the space shuttle, but more futuristic. The main requirement is that it can carry a MPLM-sized payload.

I think I'll just look into shuttle fleet then.

 

[astrosammy]

Or try out Resolve:
Resolve:[ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=2890"]Resolve[/ame]
Resolve update:[ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3061"]Resolve International[/ame][ame][/ame]

 

[RangerPL]

Ooo this looks promising :speakcool:

Thanks

I'm also beginning tests to see if I can mate Shuttle Fleet to Energia and what effect it will have.

 

[reverend]

Energia does not have enough dV to boost the shuttle

 

[pattersoncr]

See my comment in this thread (post #3).

Fly the DGEX like the manual says and it gets to orbit just fine.

 

[RangerPL]

Energia does not have enough dV to boost the shuttle

Neither do the SSMEs and the SRBs. The Shuttle has to use its OMS to finish the orbit insertion. And the Energia has enough dV to put you in a 200x~50km orbit, where you only have to burn for a few seconds to finish off the insertion.

 

[reverend]

The shuttle orbiter weighs about 18000kg more than the Buran which Energia was designed to launch, so Energia cannot get it to the 200kmx50km orbit you describe.

Also, the Buran had 325% more dv in it's OMS engines for final insertion. The OMS engines on the shuttle could not provide enough thrust for orbital insertion after an Energia launch.

Shuttle - Buran Comparison
[SIZE=-1]Shuttle[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Buran[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Mass Breakdown (kg):[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Total Structure / Landing Systems[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]46,600[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]42,000[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Functional Systems and Propulsion[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]37,200[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]33,000[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]SSME[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]14,200[/SIZE][SIZE=-1][/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Maximum Payload[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]25,000[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]30,000[/SIZE][SIZE=-1][/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Total[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]123,000[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]105,000[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Dimensions (m):[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Length[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]37.25[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]36.37[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Wingspan[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]23.80[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]23.92[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Height on Gear[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]17.25[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]16.35[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Payload bay length[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]18.29[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]18.55[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Payload bay diameter[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]4.57[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]4.65[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Wing glove sweep[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]81 deg[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]78 deg[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Wing sweep[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]45 deg[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]45 deg[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Propulsion[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Total orbital maneuvering engine thrust[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]5,440 kgf[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]17,600 kgf[/SIZE]

 

[Schimz]

See my comment in this thread (post #3).

Fly the DGEX like the manual says and it gets to orbit just fine.

Full trim is not recommended.
You must gimball engines during all the flight. Count on them for climbing, because the EX's elevators are so larges, at full angle they induce huge drag.
At 30km, when the hybrid engines switch to stato, the ideal climbing rate is 8m/s.
With this, I don't need the stick and can climb steady at time*40.
This advices are for maximum payload : 50 tons (only LEO, 20% fuel remaining - 40%@40tons).




Also, click here to be (lightly) spoiled.

 

[Xantcha]

I have launched DGEX only twice (standard scenario with ISS) and successfuly docked both times.
I have actively used trimmers and sometimes even RCS thrusters (also I doubt that was necessary). In second flight I also used hover trusters (in final ascent phase, because reaching orbital velocity at 60km turns Dgex into fireball (it also causes massive drag), so I applied hovers to quickly hop into higher atmosphere layers before craftr reached critical velocity).
At docking it was about 2% fuel left in first flight and about 28% in second.

I only made 2 flights because it takes like a tons of time - 90 minutes realtime (and interactive 90 minutes, damn) just to reach orbit - not something I can afford very often. I was just afraid that accelerating time during atmospheric flight is unstable, and second time wanted to make a better result under similar conditions.

All in all, DG EX is strange unusual fun craft. I like it

Also - anyone have idea what sort of engines it uses.. it seems to be atmospheric pressure dependant, but still works in vacuum. And is' not combined scram/conventional rocket engine since it returns same thust no matter what atmospheric velocity craft has.

 

[Schimz]

Turbofan below 30km, stato until 60km and above, micro nozzles.

But it's a bit more complicated in "reality", you have the nuke pw plant starting at 25km. It gives a punch to the quatuor and starts electrical prop.

Actually I have to write a config system (almost like Atlantis) for a better engines management. As c++ noob (and maths too...), I can't really say when it will be done. But integrating the systems is a pain. In a word, the Fatty need a better coder.

Also - anyone have idea what sort of engines it uses.. it seems to be atmospheric pressure dependant, but still works in vacuum. And is' not combined scram/conventional rocket engine since it returns same thust no matter what atmospheric velocity craft has.

I don't polish them because this bonus thrust is the electric thrust (also, it's pure logical maths ).

 

[Urwumpe]

Actually I have to write a config system (almost like Atlantis) for a better engines management. As c++ noob (and maths too...), I can't really say when it will be done. But integrating the systems is a pain. In a word, the Fatty need a better coder.

Noo, you just need more ideas.


If you have math questions, you can ask me, and I am sure many others here can also help you. For simulation of electrical circuits I am sure, I can also give you some good hints, as solving a power grid with multiple power sources is actually not as hard, when you can organize it in Bus structures.

 

[Schimz]

Noo, you just need more ideas.

Nope, just time and c++ xp.

 

[pattersoncr]

Full trim is not recommended.
You must gimball engines during all the flight. Count on them for climbing, because the EX's elevators are so larges, at full angle they induce huge drag.
At 30km, when the hybrid engines switch to stato, the ideal climbing rate is 8m/s.
With this, I don't need the stick and can climb steady at time*40.
This advices are for maximum payload : 50 tons (only LEO, 20% fuel remaining - 40%@40tons).




Also, click here to be (lightly) spoiled.

I'll revise my technique:
First main engine gimbal
then fine tune with elevator trim.

 

[Urwumpe]

Nope, just time and c++ xp.

C++ is simple, what you just need is object orientated software design experience... and for that you only need really stupid ideas. OOP design gets only bad, when you try to be smart.

And time is honey.