does most of the world really hate america

[dbeachy1]

Moderator note: OK guys, let's all take a deep breath here. We can discuss the topic without obscene images or personal attacks (content was removed).

 

[Urwumpe]

Obscene? Don't you mean Obese? :leaving:

 

[Missioncmdr]

... can't you just imagine the things I'd write if I participated in this thread???

I will check the bookstores next week. :lol:

But, on topic, I will give my own opinions. Why there seems there is an anti-American attitude out there seems to boil to two reasons. The fact the United States seems to try to run the world and fear that our culture and way of life will take over others.

But one fact remains (at least I believe) true: The American public (Which is probably like 99% of the population) really does not want either.

EDIT: I am surprised that this thread has not yet blown out to a full-blown flame war yet (as would happen on just about every other part of the Internet).

 

[dbeachy1]

Obscene? Don't you mean Obese? :leaving:

That wasn't the image I was referring to -- it was another image, which was removed.

 

[GregBurch]

Come on, Greg! I know you're chompin' to leap in here, go for it!

No -- I'm trying to learn a lesson about not wasting my time with utterly futile activities. There are words for people who keep doing the same thing over and over and expect to get different results than they have in the past -- stupid or crazy or both.

The simple fact is that the vast majority of people who express the kind of vitriolic anti-Americanism that has become the commonplace of European and Middle-Eastern and Latin American discourse simply don't know what they're talking about. How could they? If you depend on rabidly anti-American sources of information like the BBC or the Guardian or Le Monde for information, you'll never hear anything but the constant drone of a consistent, deeply-structured anti-American narrative. If those were the media sources to which I was constantly exposed, I'm sure I'd hate America, too.

With very, very few exceptions, people aren't going to do the hard work of taking the time and expending the effort to really try to understand something about which they 1) already have very strong opinions and 2) constantly receive reinforcing messages. Life is short, and most people want to have an answer, any answer, and then move on with their life. Most people aren't politics or history or social science bookworms, nor are they international travelers who spend their lives crossing cultural boundaries. But it basically takes one or the other or both to really understand another society with a different culture and a different history and different set of values than the one in which you grew up and in which you live your whole life.

Trying to communicate across that reality with a few paragraphs in an internet forum posting is like trying to empty the ocean with a teaspoon. Stupid. Crazy. Both.

 

[eveningsky339]

I don't care if others hate America. In the end it's all just lines on a map, my friends.

 

[n0mad23]

Trying to communicate across that reality with a few paragraphs in an internet forum posting is like trying to empty the ocean with a teaspoon. Stupid. Crazy. Both.

But cheap fun and probably a little less inane than playing Grand Theft Auto, I'd say.

I'm curious about your comments about the publications I'd earlier listed. I was under the impression that you liked to get as many perspectives on things as possible. Why read one side of an argument when you can read both, and possible permutations besides? I read said European news sources specifically because I want to know about other perceptions. That, and in terms of international news, there's a bit more to work through than our own rags have been providing.

That said, good for you for following your own time management scheme. Chasing futility is just that.

 

[GregBurch]

I'm curious about your comments about the publications I'd earlier listed. I was under the impression that you liked to get as many perspectives on things as possible. Why read one side of an argument when you can read both, and possible permutations besides? I read said European news sources specifically because I want to know about other perceptions. That, and in terms of international news, there's a bit more to work through than our own rags have been providing.

That said, good for you for following your own time management scheme. Chasing futility is just that.

OK, here I am posting, like I said I wouldn't ...:sorry:

"America is often portrayed as an ignorant, unsophisticated sort of place, full of bible bashers and ruled to a dangerous extent by trashy television, superstition and religious bigotry, a place lacking in respect for evidence based knowledge.
I know that is how it is portrayed because I have done my bit to paint that picture, and that picture is in many respects a true one. "

BBC reporter Jonathan Beale
http://theamericanexpatinuk.blogspot.com/2005/08/bbc-weighs-in-on-non-controversy.html

I read these sources, too. I listen to Amy "the Red" Goodman almost every day (she makes National People's Radio sound like Rush Limbaugh). But I honestly think that the vast majority of the folks you'll be reading here who are bashing America don't read, and certainly not deeply, into views that contradict the ones they already hold.

For instance, as you and I have discussed, it takes a real effort to push through to the source material now becoming available from the people inside the Bush administration who were involved in the Iraq war decision. How many of the America-bashers will read three or four of these big, thick, fat books to get a view that is 180 degrees opposed to what they hear on the Beeb or read in Le Monde? How much more satisfying -- and quick -- it is to read one more "Bush lied, people died" editorial in the NYT?

No -- I'm putting my teaspoon away on this one ...

 

[n0mad23]

Greg,

Well said.

I'm with you all the way here, and salute our unholy alliance. I'm putting mine away, too, and instead will focus my energy on what brings us all here. Namely entertaining ourselves and each other with well created addons for an insanely cool simulator environment.

Cheers.

BTW- I really thought the 'guns' thread was the source of ultimate off-topic vitriol. After reading this thread (and participating) and reading the McSame thread, I stand corrected. As irrational creatures playing at rationalization, I'm continually amazed at what sets off people emotionally. Myself included.
​

 

[simonpro]

I watched Saving Private Ryan with my girlfriend last night (nice romantic movie, yeah) so was feeling pretty upbeat about Americans in WWII and Americans in general, then I come on here this morning and read this tripe.

Maybe not all of it, but certainly the most vocal parts of it, such as continental Europe. The reasons for this are simple:

...

It's pretty much the same thing with the US and continental Europe. That's why they hate us over there.

I don't know if you're having a joke, I sincerely hope you are, but even so it's not particularly amusing. I'm not going to bother refuting your points either, as anyone who is concious and at least vaguely paying attention will be able to tell what a load of baloney it is.

I suggest you spend some time thinking about what you've written here, and I hope you realise how rediculous it sounds.





Star explorer, most people around the world do not hate America. They do hate pompus asshats and unfortunately America seems to have a fair supply of such people who can actually be heard above more reasoned voices. Rest assured, there's very few people who actually wish for America to stop existing. The majority of the world's population get on very well with most Americans, and as far as I can tell will continue to do so for many years to come.


-----Posted Added-----

If you depend on rabidly anti-American sources of information like the BBC or the Guardian or Le Monde for information

I wouldn't be quite so harsh on the BBC, they're anti-everything: Even anti-British, they're much more strongly anti-Europe than they are anti-USA though.
Anyone who uses the BBC as their sole source of information is likely to end up hating everything and with a head full of badly verbalised rubbish.

 

[NukeET]

While I appreciate and respect Bullethead's opinion, I disagree on nearly all points. Part of this is our very different backgrounds. I think a diplomatic brat inherits a very different world view than a soldier.

IMO, both the diplomat and the soldier can learn the other side, and, appreciate the other's world view. After all, "War is diplomacy by other means." The reality of the issue is a carrot and a stick will get you farther than just a carrot. Heaven help you if you have just a carrot and the other guy has a stick.

Though it annoys me to have to admit it, Obama got this part right - our dreams of "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" is what a lot of people want.

This annoys me too, but this is a sign that The One isn't beyond all hope yet. What annoys me even further is this nebulous idea of "Change" he has. I am concerned that "change" (pocket change, that is) is all I'll have left after he enacts his tax policies once elected.

However, when a state supreme court and the federal one anoint an impostor-in-chief, and right-wing dominionist wackos control the ballot boxes,

Aren't you getting a little CT with this? Especially the part about "right-wing dominionist wackos" controlling ballot boxes?

Ok,

I am going to have to agree with Bullethead here in that in-house critiques are the appropriate ones. Can't really fix the neighbors problems, but we have to fix our own.

Consensus! We do have a lot of problems of our own to fix. And I have no problem with the in-house critiques. I'm tired of the constant bashing/clashing between Euros and Americans on this forum.

 

[Master of Blades]

I don't hate America, or Americans, i just dislike your political system, and general attitude to different things (the fact that a political strategy used against Obama, is pointing out is that his father is muslim). Of course, I realise that these attitudes is not exclusive to America.

 

[John_L]

well what about this one time i was playin on xbox live with two British guys (i know your British so don't get the wrong idea i like the british) who every time i died would laugh at me and say stupid american

That's two British guys playing XBox, which means, (since they're playing XBox), that they're younger rather than older. You cannot judge the whole of Britain by two youngsters playing XBox. As a (proud) American, I believe that the vast majority people in other countries do not hate America. America sometimes makes policies that anger other countries, but, what country doesn't make policies that are to the advantage of that country? I think it's magnafied when it comes to the US because we are a large and powerful nation. However, put a handful of Americans in a room with a handful of Brits, French, Russians, etc, and we're all just people, all the same, and generally have no ill will against one another.

 

[Missioncmdr]

However, put a handful of Americans in a room with a handful of Brits, French, Russians, etc, and we're all just people, all the same, and generally have no ill will against one another.

Just like this forum.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

Here's a personal story. Take what you like and leave the rest:

When I was in graduate school I took several classes along with a fellow from Jugoslavia. That is about all I knew about him until my ANG unit was activated to go overseas for the Kosovo conflict. I was not sure whether I would be deployed overseas or at home, so I had asked my professors if I could present my in-class final presentations early. My professor announced in the next class my situation and this fellow turned to me, completely aghast. After that class he explained that he was a Serb, from Belgrade. The next class I gave my presentation, grabbed my things, and left. I remember looking at this fellow and the expression on his face was probably the same as mine. Both of us were thinking 'I can't believe this'.

I reported to my unit, and it turned out that I was assigned to back shop support, so while I was still active, I could still work on campus during evenings. This fellow sought me out to talk war and politics, and I got a glimpse of his family's life under the bombs for 74 very long days. He was very anti-Milosevic but he felt that the U.S. truly did not understand the situation between Serbia and Kosovo, that the US intereference was stunting the internal anti-Milosevic movement (as Milosevic was painting them as traitors) and all was not as black-and-white as it seemed. It was a strange time - going to work each day to work on the jets that were bombing his country, and then coming home from work and looking through emails with pictures and video of the bomb damage in Belgrade.

Afterwards, we became (and remain) very good friends. This fellow still lives and works in the US and he loves it here. Consider that - someone whose family was under US bombing for over 2 months lives in and loves America. He is not a fan of the government, mind you, but he loves US culture and he thinks that our systems are flawed but workable, just as he thinks Serbian systems are flawed and workable.

I could have easily dismissed my friend as a baby-killing Serb and he could have done the same to me by calling me a meddling imperialist pig. But we didn't. We talked. We disagreed on some things, we agreed on other things. We informed each other of our viewpoints. We didn't demonize each other.

I guess the moral of the story is, if you can keep an open mind and see the big picture, it is possible to draw distinctions in situations where it would be natural, almost instinctive, to hate anything and everything about a certain country. I think many (most?) people in other countries can see the difference between America and individual Americans and can keep the opinions of the politics separate from their opinions of the individuals. Speaking as an American, I think we should endeavor to do the same for them.

 

[n72.75]

So, you wouldn't even mind if a beautiful french woman would say the same?

:rofl:

Thats it i am moveing to Europe

 

[Ghostrider]

Thats it i am moveing to Europe

I should warn you: Europe is photoshopped. Most of it is. That's why we have small states, thanks to pixel-size brushes. And we have filters.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

Thats it i am moveing to Europe

Careful what you wish for:

It's funny because it is true.

 

[Arrowstar]

Couldn't agree with you more, Thunder Chicken. Perhaps what we need is a little more citizen-to-citizen chatting. Once you get to know the other side, how can you help sympathizing?

 

[stjimmy225]

i think we should all just sit down with a couple of beers and chat, you'll soon realise that we're pretty much all the same and if there are differences then who cares, variety is the spice of life.