Dog on the menu for Chinese astronauts

[T.Neo]

I would not see myself eating dog either, but then again I do not eat hamburgers or icecream so perhaps I should shut up. :lol:

Of course, sago grubs are a delicacy in many parts of the world. Would you like one?

 

[Urwumpe]

I loved to eat Caviar as kid, didn't have much of it for the past 20 years. :lol:

But honestly: I can't imagine Germany without the many foreign restaurants and cuisines in its modern culture. There is nothing wrong with going to a Chinese restaurant one week, and to an Italian restaurant the other...

 

[Sar]

I couldn't see myself eating dog, caviar, snails or anything like that yet I love a good steak and I guess that makes me something of a hypocrite really.

You're missing a lot, go eat some well made snails! Fried with garlic and white wine topped with blue cheese gratin. Very good especially in a hangover. I didn't really like the idea of eating those until one day at work I made one too many and decided to try it out and now I eat those almost every day.

Back to the topic. If you don't see anything wrong with beef/pork/chicken/fish/veal and such you shouldn't complain about someone eating dogs/cats/kittens/mice. You should be more concerned about the way it's produced than what it is, for instance I'd be more happy to eat a family dog that was hit by a truck than a cow that was force fed while it was standing in it's feces.

 

[T.Neo]

To be honest, I doubt hit by a truck is much of an improvement over force fed while standing in it's own feces.

 

[Lucy]

Actually, it very much is. Being hit by a lorry is probably more painful, but for a vastly shorter period of time.

 

[AirSimming]

if you can accept another's eating culture, you've passed a test for tolerance.

I even find myself being interested in trying to taste Chinese food. Not just what you can get in German restaurants. I would try some of the interesting things you can get on a Chinese weekly market. If I ever get the chance to visit China, I'll do it, not only including dog meat. Just out of curiosity how it tastes.

 

[Hielor]

But honestly: I can't imagine Germany without the many foreign restaurants and cuisines in its modern culture. There is nothing wrong with going to a Chinese restaurant one week, and to an Italian restaurant the other...

Not sure how it is in Germany, but at least in America many "foreign" foods are very adapted to American culture. You certainly won't see dog on the menu at any local Chinese restaurant, for example.

American restaurants (ie, McDonald's) do the same thing when they're in other countries.

 

[Eagle]

Eh, it comes down to a moral and palate issue. On one extreme there's cannibalism, on the other photosynthesis. Also I had a Chinese roommate who as a child ate his dog. Of course they didn't consider it a pet, just livestock (though he did cry, and the dog was tasty.) Kinda like a cow or chicken, you'll treat it nice, pat it on the head, but its there as food (and/or milk/eggs.)

If we ever run into aliens who live off light/radiation/non-living-food, they might be taken aback by even our eating of living raw plant flesh.

Oh well, we're only human.

 

[Suzy]

Dogs (and cats) are companion animals in many cultures - unlike cows, etc. - so eating them is regarded as abhorrent (would you eat your friends?). Also they are horribly treated (stuffed into cages, then skinned alive).

 

[T.Neo]

Actually, it very much is. Being hit by a lorry is probably more painful, but for a vastly shorter period of time.

Shorter duration does not really improve things...

If we ever run into aliens who live off light/radiation/non-living-food, they might be taken aback by even our eating of living raw plant flesh.

Yes. Can you believe those humans, and their horrible treatment of organisms they call plants? They even eat them, how sick is that?

Dogs (and cats) are companion animals in many cultures - unlike cows, etc. - so eating them is regarded as abhorrent (would you eat your friends?).

Indeed. I agree with Xyon that I wouldn't eat my dog (or cat) but I suppose I wouldn't eat my pet cow or pig either.

Also they are horribly treated (stuffed into cages, then skinned alive).

Such treatment isn't limited to cats or dogs though. And it is best to excersise skepticism towards these claims- often it is propaganda from animal rights groups.

But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

[Urwumpe]

Not sure how it is in Germany, but at least in America many "foreign" foods are very adapted to American culture. You certainly won't see dog on the menu at any local Chinese restaurant, for example.

You also won't find dog on most Chinese restaurants in China. Dog is a specialty in a very tiny region in southern China, I think it is even just limited to a single city. That all Chinese eat dog is a myth, with a true core.

Traditional German cuisine and Chinese cuisine have a lot in common: Both are based on the old guideline "If it is dead and fits into the pan, you can eat it".

 

[AirSimming]

Dogs (and cats) are companion animals in many cultures - unlike cows, etc. - so eating them is regarded as abhorrent (would you eat your friends?). Also they are horribly treated (stuffed into cages, then skinned alive).

I personally do not equate common pets with humanly friends (less than ever something primitive like house cats). Pets, especially dogs, are basically one thing: conditioned. They do what you want them to do because they expect to be fed by you, not because they love you so much. Those pets who just don't do what you want them to do all the time, i.e. who are not or not entirely "controlable", are either held in cages or are jailed at home anyway, like those "little sweet" birds or "little sweet" cavy.

In my point of view, animals either belong into the nature or on a farm, but not in a small flat just to watch and stroke them. I also can't understand, for example, the hype on young polar bears in zoos. To me, polar bears are anything but sweet. It's one of the most, if not the most dangerous terrestrial predators. Of course they are amazing, but certainly not "sweet".

However, I do eat animals because meat tastes. And I would, just as the majority of humankind, also eat them just to survive. And as we know especially from seafaring but also from other events, humans would also eat their humanly friends just to survive in certain circumstances. Before you're going to die, you start to eat although you can't imagine to do this under normal circumstances. The true nature is not at all that much romantic than some humans think it is.

 

[Urwumpe]

I don't subscribe to that. I don't consider my dogs companions for following my orders, but for the things they do themselves - the orders are expected standard, what goes beyond that is what makes them special. Just like my cat is conditioned to know how to make me give him food and water, and open him the cabinet door, when he finished sleeping. The animals have a character, maybe even an immortal soul. And this is not just imagination - this is measurable, that there are unique behaviors on animals. Most animals have as many quirks as humans.

Of course, dogs and cats are not superiors. But they have my respect, just like the people who had the unlucky fate to come under my command had my respect, despite being practically just tools for my duties.

I care for the animals I know, and that is why I couldn't eat any of them... despite having no problem eating unknown animals. I know that this is pretty bigot, but I can't solve the mystery myself so far. Maybe a good predator has some sort of respect for his preys, maybe I can just eat the stuff because I don't know which soul inhabited the meat I just eat...

 

[AirSimming]

The animals have a character, maybe even an immortal soul. And this is not just imagination - this is measurable, that there are unique behaviors on animals. Most animals have as many quirks as humans.

Of course animals have a character (maybe not an in immortal soul since I think all things must pass). But an animal character is something different than a human character if we are honest. You can replace a pet i.e. just get another one. But you can't simply replace your parents or your children that way. That's why I can't equate a pet with a human. They still have my respect of course, but if something happens, animals slip down on my priority list of survival and health. Children and women first, then animals.

I care for the animals I know, and that is why I couldn't eat any of them...

Which you say right now If you would have to decide to do something before you die because of starvation, I think you would eat them if this would be the only chance. Starvation becomes quite a nasty thing at a certain point, where humans are willing to do almost everything, if not everything, just to stave off hunger. Seamen already have drunk even the blood of their mates after killing the most weakest of them, just to survive. Not to mention Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571. Common people who before thought something like this just is fish story and can't be possible.

But of course under normal circumstances I also couldn't eat the dog of my parents.

 

[Urwumpe]

You can replace a pet i.e. just get another one. But you can't simply replace your parents or your children that way.

You can't replace pets any easier. If you have lived 13 years of your life with one, it is not simpler only because it is "just a dog". The memories will live on, and no new dog will be the same, so you better give this new dog a chance to be more than just the substitute.

About the "extreme circumstances": I know many more people, who did really rather die than just getting down this path. Only because the media attention jumps on such stories more, it doesn't mean that they are "the norm". If this hunger thesis would be even slightly true, much more people would kill other humans for food, instead of just starving in millions every year. The reality is luckily not full of madman, who would violate all natural limits for just surviving as individual.

Such stories are also no excuse for such events being acceptable. A few people who have done this in wars did not live long with their guilt, they had died there as well, their body just noticed this a few years later. The devil is waiting everywhere for the weak...

If you would eat an animal, that you have no relation with, that is not surprising.

 

[T.Neo]

(less than ever something primitive like house cats).

House cats are not primitive, indeed, certain breeds seem to be very intelligent.

I would say that those breeds are certainly more intelligent than certain dog breeds.

Pets, especially dogs, are basically one thing: conditioned. They do what you want them to do because they expect to be fed by you, not because they love you so much.

Of course a dog will cooperate with you because the relationship is advantageous, but this does not mean it does not love you. Love is not magic limited to humans, it is a useful evolutionary trait found in many organisms.

You can replace a pet i.e. just get another one. But you can't simply replace your parents or your children that way.

This is very untrue- it is like saying to a parent that they can "just get another" child. One animal is not another, they have traits and quirks, personalities. No less than a human.

If this hunger thesis would be even slightly true, much more people would kill other humans for food, instead of just starving in millions every year. The reality is luckily not full of madman, who would violate all natural limits for just surviving as individual.

Indeed.

 

[AirSimming]

You can't replace pets any easier. If you have lived 13 years of your life with one, it is not simpler only because it is "just a dog". The memories will live on, and no new dog will be the same, so you better give this new dog a chance to be more than just the substitute.

Although both hurts, losing a dog is different than losing your own young children. At least for sane people.

About the "extreme circumstances": I know many more people, who did really rather die than just getting down this path.

Which doesn't assure that you would not eat your pets or even humans but rather die instead.

It's still hard to accept that even humans of developed countries are capable of cannibalism under certain circumstances. Even those who never thought it might happen to them did it in the end. The survivers of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571 certainly never thought about eating human meat. Even when the situation was there, some still didn't like the idea, until their feeling of hunger became bigger and bigger and they had to realise it's their only chance. And this didn't only apply to flight 571, but also to seamen and soldiers during WWII. I think no one can imagine such a situation without experiencing it in reality. That's why you should never say never

If this hunger thesis would be even slightly true, much more people would kill other humans for food, instead of just starving in millions every year. The reality is luckily not full of madman, who would violate all natural limits for just surviving as individual.

Because people in third world countries can still hope. Eating a human body is not their very only chance to survive. Their siutation is very much different to the situation of castaway adventurer. And it's not a thesis, but in fact it did happen not only time that humans are able to and do eat each other to survive.

But to be back on the actual argument: eating an animal that you know of, is the least evil if you are more than just very hungry.

If you would eat an animal, that you have no relation with, that is not surprising.

I can imagine that I would eat the dogs of my parents if this would be my only chance. I would be stupid not to do it in my point of view.

House cats are not primitive, indeed, certain breeds seem to be very intelligent.

I would say that those breeds are certainly more intelligent than certain dog breeds.

You can not have a cat to herd your sheeps or to have it as a "guide cat". Of course you can't do so with any dog as well. But you can't do it with no cat.

Of course a dog will cooperate with you because the relationship is advantageous, but this does not mean it does not love you.

A dog "loves" anyone he can expect to get a piece of sausage from. I wouldn't go so far to call it love altough it might be our impression. I think dogs know very well that humans are their best providers.

This is very untrue- it is like saying to a parent that they can "just get another" child.

You can't replace your parents or your children like many people get one pet after another or just stuff their dead pets. It's a difference, unless one has social problems and prefers animal friends over human friends.

 

[Urwumpe]

I still say never. There are also cases of Cannibalism of perfectly well-fed people, who are just insane. Extreme circumstances? Sure not. Cannibalism is insanity. It is not even healthy, human flesh is slightly toxic for humans. There is no natural instinct that you can call upon.

And stop repeating the same three examples (and you also forget Stalingrad, which was a far harder case of starvation and suffering, with surprisingly little documented cases of cannibalism). It doesn't work - for each case you have, anybody here can drag out millions of cases where humans did not do it. The people who commit cannibalism are not the norm - they are strongly differing to the norm, thus fulfilling many qualifications for being insane in the modern world.

Just like people take the death of their dog as hard as the death of their own child, without being insane. It might not be within your limits of sympathy, but that doesn't say that they are insane. What counts is only the emotional connection, which can be even very hard for cars, you might be surprised how hard sane people can take the loss of their car. You are maybe hardly the reference for sanity.

Also, that you would eat the dog of your parents, if this is your "only" chance, already suggests that you won't look very hard for "other" chances. You are right, people who still hope don't commit cannibalism. But people who committed cannibalism did actually do it out of the hope for surviving long enough for being rescued. Again, your hypothesis does not hold water. People who loose hope are less likely to violate their own ethics for survival, they will try to make the best of their situation. Like the passenger on the Titanic, who, rather than fighting for his rescue like a wild animal, sat down in the saloon with a cigar and a bottle of champagne, calmly awaiting his fate in the best possible way. (Yes, extreme situations can back fire for deducting anything about the normal life)


Please realize: Your models of the reality has first of all deal with the normal cases, before you can stress-test them with the extremes. If you start your epic gyro compass on living among homicidal cannibals, you might be right with the assumption that it would be wise to be on the top of the food chain. But that is not normal. That is the extreme exception, that won't work outside the closed envelope of the model.

 

[AirSimming]

I still say never.

Because you can not imagine being in such a situation that "potentially" can enable you, me, and others, to do so. It's like saying "I would never murder".

If your life is threatened, you'll experience the outcome of survival instincts.

Cannibalism is insanity.

Of course cannibalism is insane. But it's still interesting why people, who certainly also thought it is insane, did it in certain situations. Even those who didn't want to do that but after all did it. They certainly were not insane. I would say the situation in which they found themselves was rather insane/surreal.

If you like science, which you do, you know that saying "I'm imune to all this" is less scientific. You rather can't imagine to do this, like any sane person of course can't.

 

[Urwumpe]

If your life is threatened, you'll experience the outcome of survival instincts.

Survival is something completely different than what you are talking about.

What you are talking about is weakness.

Also, I know that I am well capable of murder and not really surprised of it. I feel actually pretty fine with the fact. It is not like I have the urge to go postal, I just have no problems disarming a weapon by destroying the shooter. I would expect the same from others.

I would never do cannibalism. This is something that has nothing to do with my instincts (of which I am pretty well aware), but with a psychological disorder, that can be culturally conditioned into people. You can convince people that cannibalism as last resort action could save their life. That is a lie, of course. If you survive long enough with human meat inside your body, you would have survived without even longer.