News Fertilizer plant explosion near Waco

[Screamer7]

I working in the gold mining industry and handle this kind of explosives daily.
I may add that it is a very powerful explosive type.
In some degrees it is more powerful than the gel type we also use.
We switch over to the gel type, because the fertilizer type we called Anfex, cause a lot of fracking in the hanging wall on surrounding rock.
It is just ordinary fertilizer granules mix with diesel.
This "fracking" causing instability in the hanging wall which is difficult to control.

 

[Mattyv]

Couldn't pay me enough to live next to a fertilizer plant.

 

[garyw]

It's my understanding that the fertilizer would have been a/the major component exploding, if that's what you're wondering. I could be wrong though. I don't know what they use for production or have as byproducts at the plant.

The Dallas Morning News reported that West Fertilizer had told the Environmental Protection Agency that it presented no risk of fire or explosion.
The newspaper said it had seen documents in which the plant said it stored large amounts of anhydrous ammonia, but the worst scenario envisaged was a release of ammonia gas that would harm no-one.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22195495

Is it just me or does that make it sound like West Fertilizer were deluding themselves?


This has all the hallmarks of a Cherynobol/Piper Alpha like lack of safety systems.

 

[Urwumpe]

Is it just me or does that make it sound like West Fertilizer were deluding themselves?

Actually, the reports sound more like there had been big certification troubles solved by either incompetence or corrupt inspectors. neighbors complained about Ammonia smell for a few months before the disaster.

Also Piper Alpha was no lack of safety features AFAIR. It was a multiple breach of safety procedure. The features had been there, but had not been used properly. Which is far worse than plain lack of safety features.

 

[mojoey]

Interesting, this fuel depot fire/explosion was a 2.4-equivalent quake (I vaguely remember hearing something from about 150 miles away), had a similar proximity to a town, and yet caused no deaths and nowhere near as many casualties. Why the difference?

Edit: didn't notice the time of day difference, so in effect just a matter of luck.

Horrible, horrible coincidence with the Boston events, thoughts go to the people there recovering.

I wonder if there'll be double survivors, like with the atom bombs during WW2.

 

[statickid]

The ammonia MSDS says that there are narrow parameters to cause an explosion, and its difficult to even get it to burn. It does seem to become less stable when introduced to water. Perhaps the mis-directed efforts of the fire fighters and some unfortunate chemical mixing caused the explosion :hmm: just casual speculation, i'm no ammonia expert

 

[Quick_Nick]

I imagine an inferno is no standard condition for them. That plant was reaaally burning before the explosion. "Difficult to ignite" sounds very relative.

 

[mojoey]

They would probably be familiar with how to fight a chemical fire (some sort of special liquid, kinda like what's in a fire extinguisher), and wouldn't have used water.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

From what I've read, the town of West had a volunteer fire department, not a full-time one. They're more accustomed to structure and vehicle fires, not chemical plants burning.

 

[Urwumpe]

They would probably be familiar with how to fight a chemical fire (some sort of special liquid, kinda like what's in a fire extinguisher), and wouldn't have used water.

Depends - for ammonia and nitric acid, water is fine. But you need heavier gear to cool tanks and extinguish fires in a chemical factory.

 

[mojoey]

From what I've read, the town of West had a volunteer fire department, not a full-time one. They're more accustomed to structure and vehicle fires, not chemical plants burning.

Well, that might be what caused it, but surely *someone* at the plant knew not to throw water onto ammonia.

 

[Urwumpe]

Well, that might be what caused it, but surely *someone* at the plant knew not to throw water onto ammonia.

Again - for Ammonia, Water is fine. You need to differ for other chemicals.

In the German safety rules for ammonia, you are explicitly called for using water spray against ammonia gas for preventing explosion.

 

[Scav]

So basically they did everything right . . . but there was still nothing for it.

 

[mojoey]

Again - for Ammonia, Water is fine. You need to differ for other chemicals.

In the German safety rules for ammonia, you are explicitly called for using water spray against ammonia gas for preventing explosion.

I didn't see your comment, sorry.

 

[Urwumpe]

So basically they did everything right . . . but there was still nothing for it.

Yes, that is something that you should know as fire fighter: Even if you do everything right, protect yourself and take no risks, things can go wrong. There is no guarantee that your recipe has a chance to work.

 

[Quick_Nick]

Again - for Ammonia, Water is fine. You need to differ for other chemicals.

In the German safety rules for ammonia, you are explicitly called for using water spray against ammonia gas for preventing explosion.

According to the BBC, indirectly from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, this anhydrous ammonia:
-Must be stored in high-pressure tanks
-Produces poisonous vapour cloud on exposure to water
-Forms explosive mixture when combined with air

 

[statickid]

The water is fine chemically, however In one of the articles they did mention that the temperature of the water raised the temperature of the ammonia... Seems like the fire would do this before the water did

 

[Quick_Nick]

As an afterthought, in the cellphone video, it looked like the explosion started at the left of the frame, as if from the air, down to the tank. It's obviously not perfectly clear, but maybe not completely misleading. Whatever happened, it certainly looks like some specific structure exploded, probably housing one specific chemical whether that was ammonia or ammonium nitrate. (news suggests it was just the ammonia tank)

 

[Urwumpe]

According to the BBC, indirectly from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, this anhydrous ammonia:
-Must be stored in high-pressure tanks
-Produces poisonous vapour cloud on exposure to water
-Forms explosive mixture when combined with air

1 & 3 yes, second not. It turns to gas when heated, since ammonia is a gas under normal conditions. Heating can result in overpressure.

 

[Quick_Nick]

Either way, there is that "inability to obtain a permit" bit... (always is )