IMFD AMSO TLI

[Apollo 11]

Hi Y'all!


I seem to have trouble reaching the moon in AMSO. I launch Apollo 8 into LEO and configure IMFD the way the free return tragectory is said on the website. Why can't I reach the moon!!!!!

 

[pete.dakota]

Well first off. You're obviously NOT configuring IMFD correctly or you wouldn't have a problem. Try reading the IMFD manual and understanding WHY you're entering certain values, settings. Instead of just following a step by step guide, which, really, only teaches you the procedure, and no method.

You need to elaborate more on your problem, or people will yell at you for posting topics like this.

For instance: After you THINK you've configured IMFD properly what ACTUALLY happens?

"It doesn't work" is never good enough.

 

[Quick_Nick]

Also, what website/tutorial??? One of the easiest ways to get bad results from a tutorial would be following it too closely and copying exact values. Most values vary greatly from one situation to another. Unless you are starting a specific scenario associated with the tutorial and have done nothing at all, you will need a unique burn.

 

[Zatnikitelman]

What tutorials are there? It's not like he can follow anything step-by-step. The manual is ok for basics, but isn't a usage manual. Sort of like computer manuals tell you what the comp has and such, but it assumes you know how to use the mouse and keyboard That's why I'm stuck in LEO, I can plot some stuff using TransX, but I know from watching other convos here and on M6 that IMFD can plot much more efficient courses than TransX can and you can do a bit more with the courses than TransX.
I'm putting a challenge to those knowledgeable in IMFD to create a few basic tutorials that can be read, printed out, marked on etc. so us not so knowledgeable who just can't seem to grasp IMFD can finally join the ranks of yon interplanetary voyagers.

 

[bujin]

I'm putting a challenge to those knowledgeable in IMFD to create a few basic tutorials that can be read, printed out, marked on etc. so us not so knowledgeable who just can't seem to grasp IMFD can finally join the ranks of yon interplanetary voyagers.

I second that!

At the moment with IMFD, I just keep hitting buttons in random orders until it does something vaguely like what I want to do - and in most cases, I just give up and use the standard MFDs instead. I haven't a clue how to use it properly and I cannot find any really useful information on it.

 

[jarmonik]

Looks like I really need to start a documentation project for the IMFD.

 

[pete.dakota]

You guys are baffling me. There ARE tutorials for IMFD. There's a free return TLI tutorial on the Author's website. And offsetting procedure tutorial in doc/IMFD.

There's an old tutorial here which covers an entire flight from Earth, to Brighton Beach and back again. It's for an older IMFD version, but the basics are still there.

You don't have to go 'challenging' other people to teach you how to use something for which there is already adequate documentation.

 

[clive bradbury]

Well, Pete, I tend to agree with the other posters. The current range of documentation does not deal with the issues required in suffient detail. The Free-return, for example, though pretty good, does not deal with how, or whether, or when, to make course corrections en route.

The best ever tutorial for IMFD was the classic 'europa to callisto', as that gave highly detailed procedures for the entire trip. Something like that for the latest version would be fantastic.

The problem with the current tutorials, especially with AMSO, is that they tend to tell you to enter certain values but not WHY. If you deviate from the historical launch times they then mean nothing.

Please, please, please - a basic step-by-step tutorial with the emphasis on WHY as much as HOW.

 

[bujin]

You guys are baffling me. There ARE tutorials for IMFD. There's a free return TLI tutorial on the Author's website. And offsetting procedure tutorial in doc/IMFD.

There's an old tutorial here which covers an entire flight from Earth, to Brighton Beach and back again. It's for an older IMFD version, but the basics are still there.

I hadn't seen the older tutorial before, so ta for that. The tutorials on jarmonik's site are good, but while they tell you what to do, they don't tell you why you're doing it, which is what I need to know. The Orbiterschool one does go into more detail.

 

[pete.dakota]

I've found, that with following tutorials a few times through you start to get an idea of why you're doing things. Instead of following the steps exactly, try deviating away a little bit and get a handle on what values mean what if you change them. I've only used the tutorials that I linked above and I've found it quite easy, over time, to learn and use IMFD fully.

 

[Apollo 11]

Okay, I've managed to reach the moon. But I crash into it. How is LOI preformed. No midcourse correction has been prefrmed.

 

[NukeET]

The best ever tutorial for IMFD was the classic 'europa to callisto', as that gave highly detailed procedures for the entire trip. Something like that for the latest version would be fantastic.

The problem with the current tutorials, especially with AMSO, is that they tend to tell you to enter certain values but not WHY. If you deviate from the historical launch times they then mean nothing.

Please, please, please - a basic step-by-step tutorial with the emphasis on WHY as much as HOW.

The Europa to Callisto tutorial gives you the best "WHY" in all of the tutorials I've seen. WHY reinvent the wheel for AMSO? BTW, if you deviate from the historical launch times in AMSO...then what is the point of flying the mission? You have a very tight propellant budget, and you can't afford major deviations from the ideal flight path.

I've found, that with following tutorials a few times through you start to get an idea of why you're doing things. Instead of following the steps exactly, try deviating away a little bit and get a handle on what values mean what if you change them. I've only used the tutorials that I linked above and I've found it quite easy, over time, to learn and use IMFD fully.

I agree with Pete.dakota...take a simple tutorial and change one variable at a time to see what it does. You can screw it up...but you can't break it.

 

[Lunar Pilot]

IMFD

Why in the world are you using IMFD to get to the Moon? Transfer MFD works just as well.

 

[Quick_Nick]

Why in the world are you using IMFD to get to the Moon? Transfer MFD works just as well.

Some people choose to use one program, others another. In my opinion here though Transfer MFD is very heavily limited in its abilities. TransX and IMFD are the only really effective programs I know of.(in this case anyways)

 

[chudsosoft]

I've found, that with following tutorials a few times through you start to get an idea of why you're doing things. Instead of following the steps exactly, try deviating away a little bit and get a handle on what values mean what if you change them. I've only used the tutorials that I linked above and I've found it quite easy, over time, to learn and use IMFD fully.

If you don't want to help, don't help. I, for one, could really use some user-friendly information on what IMFD really does. Comments like yours only serve to discourage others from providing that information.

I don't mean to be harsh at all, and maybe I'm way off here. There's a certain attitude that some people have about their "hard-earned knowledge" that really irks me sometimes. Orbiter is something I do for fun. If I decide to become an expert, I know how to apply for a student loan. If somebody wants to help make this easier, it would be much appreciated. If not, no hard feelings. But to come in here and suggest that I'm just not trying hard enough is completely unnecessary.

My back's been killing me today and I'm in the worst mood ever. Don't take it personally.

 

[to be]

IMFD is (IMO) the most powerful MFD in existence. It can pretty much get you anywhere, extremely accurately. It took me a long time to figure out what I have so far about IMFD, and I still would say there is a good portion of it I don't really know what does! So more documentation would be great jarmonik .

 

[Pirx]

Hello. I see in this and some other threads people complaining about the lack of explanations, "whys" in existing IMFD tutorials. I have felt the same when I was learning IMFD. At the end of 2007 and beginning of 2008 I wrote several posts on Dan's forum trying to explain IMFD programs and their most important parameters. I am not completely satisfied with the result but as I got some positive feedback there, I will take the risk to provide you with a link to these posts:
http://orbiter.dansteph.com/forum/read.php?f=1&i=18317&t=18317

 

[pete.dakota]

This is a thread that me and another user were using to discuss an Apollo 11 IMFD tutorial. I'm not sure if he is still pursuing it. However, there are some useful posts on there, mostly discussing the method for returning to the Earth from the Moon, though.

If anyone does want to make a new tutorial for IMFD, feel free to use or ask me about what I've posted there.

 

[Quick_Nick]

Hello. I see in this and some other threads people complaining about the lack of explanations, "whys" in existing IMFD tutorials. I have felt the same when I was learning IMFD. At the end of 2007 and beginning of 2008 I wrote several posts on Dan's forum trying to explain IMFD programs and their most important parameters. I am not completely satisfied with the result but as I got some positive feedback there, I will take the risk to provide you with a link to these posts:
http://orbiter.dansteph.com/forum/read.php?f=1&i=18317&t=18317

That's a great tutorial! I'm working on doing the flight myself now and so far I think I've got it with minimal confusion.
Also, welcome to the forum!

 

[skunkie]

IMFD Problems

I am having Problems with getting the IMFD to adjust certain values
when i am in leo trying to do the amso apollo 11 Mission i cannot get my PEA to adjust when i am Adjusting the RAD values in the Left course IMFD
I have my left IMFD set up in map mode moon-pe target moon but in my map window i cant get any of my values to adjust to figure My pea on the moon before LTI i am a noob to Orbiter so any help would be great I am using the Tutorial by polaris and setting everything up to what he says it needs to be for the Apollo11 flight When i goi into the asmo as-506 Lesson 5 the Imfd is already set up and I can adjust the ones on that Scenario Just cant seem to find what i am doing wrong by comparing the two