Project Lunar Module "Spider" (Updated 11/01/2012)

[Graham2001]

Looks good,

My question how are you going to simulate the power supply, which included an RTG for use on long term missions?

 

[Urwumpe]

I would suggest displaying the propellants in a unit as required: In one place, you would read lb since the GNC system also requires this information. But during landing, time to depletion is more important to know, and should be displayed somewhere.

And I would expect it to use an improved version of the AGC, not the AP-1 of Skylab, because the AP-1 system has a much higher mass and is designed for different purposes.

Maybe an AGC with tape drive. A CRT would not make much sense, since it requires much more hardware and electricity - the CRTs of the Shuttle had not been an improvement, in case somebody thinks that way.

You could surely also copy a bit of technology from the Russkis for being realistic and user friendly: Displaying the variable label and unit next to a display, instead of the bare numbers of the AGC interface.

 

[jedidia]

Say, are you going to make the switches just on texture, or do you plan on modelling them?

 

[4throck]

General panel layout is done. I've started cleanup and decided to remove the screws. They are not represented on the schematic in the PDF and I think that they are TOO retro.
Still a long way to go but I think that it is usable for a test as a general background for all moving elements (switches, gauges, etc).
Remember that I will remove the switch shadows and leave only the metal base visible (not the handle, so to say).

 

[Hlynkacg]

Looks good,

My question how are you going to simulate the power supply, which included an RTG for use on long term missions?

Electrical subsystem management is on the to-do list but low priority.

I would suggest displaying the propellants in a unit as required: In one place, you would read lb since the GNC system also requires this information. But during landing, time to depletion is more important to know, and should be displayed somewhere.

And I would expect it to use an improved version of the AGC, not the AP-1 of Skylab, because the AP-1 system has a much higher mass and is designed for different purposes.

Maybe an AGC with tape drive. A CRT would not make much sense, since it requires much more hardware and electricity - the CRTs of the Shuttle had not been an improvement, in case somebody thinks that way.

You could surely also copy a bit of technology from the Russkis for being realistic and user friendly: Displaying the variable label and unit next to a display, instead of the bare numbers of the AGC interface.

As stated in the opening I'm putting my priority on ease of use rather than strict historical accuracy. in that frame of mind, the MFD is basically a concession to the orbiter community. the question is how retro do I want to go? Should I make the MFD monochrome for the extra rerto-ness or leave it be.

Good sugestion about printing the units on the panel itself thought.

Likewise I've been designing my own simplified DSKY/AGC based (at least interface wise) on the Lockhead CDU-11s I had to deal with when I was in the Navy. It's in very rudimentary stages but to give you an idea here is the planned process for starting the launch autopilot...

You have a DSKY style keypad and LCD block

Menu
1. AP
2. COM
3. NAV
4. ENG

player presses "1" on the keypad to select "AP" (autopilots) and gets the next page

AP Page 1/2
1. PRO
2. RET
3. +NM
4. -NM
5. HOV
6. NXT

player presses 6 for "next"

AP Page 2/2
1. LCH
2. LND
3. RND
4. CRC

6. PRV

player presses 1 for "launch" and gets

LAUNCH AP
1. INC
####### (displays tgt Inc)
2. Alt
####### (displays tgt Alt)
3. START
4. CNX

from here the player can press either 1 or 2 to enter new values, 3 to run the program, or 4 to cancel.

Say, are you going to make the switches just on texture, or do you plan on modelling them?

The switches will be be modeled eventually.

---------- Post added 07-13-12 at 02:33 AM ---------- Previous post was 07-12-12 at 06:00 PM ----------

The Ascent stage autopilot will reliably achieve a target inclination and altitude with fuel to spare.

It isn't exactly something I can post a screenshot of but I'm feeling quite proud of myself. :woohoo:

 

[4throck]

Seems to be coming along fine.

One suggestion: the possibility to take of with the landing stage attached and to refuel once landed (can be via scenario editor).
If we consider a timeline set in 1980's, perhaps some small lunar bases exist, and the Spider could be used as a taxi between them.

Another thing: at least the middle bottom panel (with the DSKY) is needed, right?

 

[Hlynkacg]

Seems to be coming along fine.

One suggestion: the possibility to take of with the landing stage attached and to refuel once landed (can be via scenario editor).
If we consider a timeline set in 1980's, perhaps some small lunar bases exist, and the Spider could be used as a taxi between them.

Another thing: at least the middle bottom panel (with the DSKY) is needed, right?

I've already got a texture for my "DSKY MkII" so don't worry about it.

As for taking off again, unless the stage seperation flag has been tripped Orbiter will continue to treat the Descent Stage engines and proptanks as your primary. So yes, you can refuel via scenario editor (or landing on an Orbiter pad) and take off again using the Descent stage.

I've actually been using hops between Brighton and the UMMU 2.0 Demo base to test my guidance algorithms.

I've been looking at the LESA and AES moon bases on astronautix and think it would be kind of cool to set up a an Alternate History type scenario/addon where in the year is 1979, Skylab is in earth orbit and you have to fly a CSM and Spider to rendevous with a Lunar logistics craft already on the surface and set up a UCCGO-style inflatable base.

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/aesrbase.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/lesrbase.htm

 

[4throck]

Finished cleaning up the text and removing the gauge pointers, so that they can be eventually animated.

As for LESA and AES, the simplest what is to use the Beyond Apollo addon:
[ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=5664"]http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=5664[/ame]~

A big surface rover with VC would be nice, but unless we mess with 3d terrain it's a little dull to drive over flat land...

 

[Matias Saibene]

Nice Job, Orbiter is becoming more complete.

 

[Hlynkacg]

@4thRock looking good, I don't suppose you'd be available to or interested in doing textures for the rest of the interior would you?

any way keep up the good work :thumbup:

Also: being a fan of and regular commentor on David Portree's blog I was kind of miffed when I found out that "Beyond Apollo" had already been claimed as an addon name.


Anywho now for progress...

I did some further testing on the ascent autopilot it flys the full profile even if you shift focus to another vessel.



Flying formation with the computer.

Unfortunatly the landing program is proving to be much more dificult to impliment than I expected and after several hours of frustration and false starts :beathead: I decided to work on something else.

Animations and UMMU support...

The hatch now opens and and it's state determines whether pushing the UMMU key will transfer a crewman to a docked vessel or cause them to egress. Cabin pressurization has also been implimented and functions similar to that in the XR Fleet's air-locks.

Also note that as a UMMU exits the lander his mesh is removed. I'm currently trying to figure out a way to determine the "class" a UMMU so I can add the appropriate mesh to the lander.

IE if you have a Scientist and a Tech on board you will actually see a Scientist and Tech looking through the windows.

 

[4throck]

@4thRock looking good, I don't suppose you'd be available to or interested in doing textures for the rest of the interior would you?

any way keep up the good work :thumbup:

:thumbup: Thanks !
Interested, of course yes! But realistically I'm afraid I don't have to time to commit to such a large task. And I tend do loose interest of something drags on for weeks. So let's take it one step at a time.

Anyway, are we talking about the two side panels? Or general texturing?

(PS: can you provide some test of my texture on your VC with the lunar surface outside the window? I'll need to start working on the backlit look so I need to how it looks now to do the necessary changes)

 

[Hlynkacg]

:thumbup: Thanks !
Interested, of course yes! But realistically I'm afraid I don't have to time to commit to such a large task. And I tend do loose interest of something drags on for weeks. So let's take it one step at a time.

Anyway, are we talking about the two side panels? Or general texturing?

(PS: can you provide some test of my texture on your VC with the lunar surface outside the window? I'll need to start working on the backlit look so I need to how it looks now to do the necessary changes)

You're welcome :tiphat:

At the very least I'd like you to do the bottom and side panels (so everything matches) but I'll understand if you say no. Afterall, it's not like i'm paying you for your time.

I still need to make som minor adjustments to get everything lined up but here are some shots of the VC with your texture installed. Obviously interior walls aren't going to be blazing white in the final version. right now they're the same material* as the panels just without any texture defined.





*interior_panel material from the Stock Atlantis.

 

[4throck]

Looks WAY cool!

What might work is to use those drawings from the PDF as temporary textures. That way you wouldn't have to wait for me in order to release a first version.
Then, as I have the time, I can do them one by one. It's a simple matter of replacing the .dds files.
Remember, perfection is cool, but gets in the way of getting done...

 

[N_Molson]

I have to learn how to do that one day... :yes:

 

[Hlynkacg]

Looks WAY cool!

What might work is to use those drawings from the PDF as temporary textures. That way you wouldn't have to wait for me in order to release a first version.

Sounds like a plan :thumbup:

Quick Update:

The landing autopilot has officially pissed me off to the nth degree.

therefore I've gone back to work on the VC and descent stage meshes so I can actually feel like I'm making progress.



As you can see i've adjusted the color balance some and added a frame/buttons to the MFD. Next step is to make it so those buttons actually work.

 

[4throck]

Nice integration of the MFD. Really cool!

---------- Post added at 16:29 ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 ----------

Here's the backlit panel. I think it's done for now. I like the dark look. When in space or on the moon, with low sun angles, I thing it will look just right.
Perhaps the interior of the module should be darker (material properties, perhaps less reflexion?).

For example, here's Buzz in the LEM and it does look dark on the inside:

 

[Hlynkacg]

I'll need to do some minor changes just to get everything to match up properly but Excellent work overall! :thumbup:

I've been putting more time into the VC, cleaning up the gauges and coding the individual crew positions. You can now shift between Commander, Pilot, and an Overhead orbit/docking camera by pressing the "tab" key.

Here are some screens...

This is the view from the Commander's position looking forward (default view upon entering the VC)

Here's the view from the Pilot's position looking left. The ovhd window is clearly visible in the upper left corner. The plan is to eventually replace the surface MFD with a fully functional ADI ball but that'll be a pretty serious bit of code so for the moment I'll leave it be.

The docking view doesn't look like much yet (just an empty rectangle) but it will eventually look up through the ovhd window and be aligned with the axis of thrust. A orbiter standard HUD will be built into the COAS (not yet modeled) allowing the player to do orbital manuevers (Manually align for burns, Docking, etc...) by alinging the COAS reticle with the velocity pipper displayed by the HUD.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Wow. Have you ever released any vessel addons before? The detail is amazing!

 

[edsupagood]

You are doing some amazing work so far! Keep it up and it's going to be one of the better addons :thumbup:

 

[4throck]

The plan is to eventually replace the surface MFD with a fully functional ADI ball but that'll be a pretty serious bit of code so for the moment I'll leave it be.

Looking great. Really great!
I'll try to get started on the other panels.

The way to go IMHO about the ADI ball vs MFD is to code it as a MFD!
I made a request some time ago for analog / classic gauges/displays...
Integration would be perfect into old and new addons, even without a VC.

---------- Post added at 17:38 ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 ----------

And here's the bottom panel:

For time reasons I did a stock Apollo version.
There are some small differences between this and the version described on the PDF, but I think they don't matter much.
I'm almost out of good reference images and also out of time, so don't expect the rest of the panels to be done as quick (or at all :lol.
Nevertheless, if I feel like it.. who knows?