Malaysian airlines aircraft "shot down", SA-11 apparently

[ex-orbinaut]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ne-crashes-on-Ukraine-Russia-border-live.html

Really?

 

[MattBaker]

50 bucks on Malaysian Airlines being out of business by 2020.

Yeah, I can already hear the conspiracy theorists typing furiosly.

 

[kamaz]

Unfortunately yes.

Live coverage in The Basement.

 

[Urwumpe]

The chances are very low that this was just an accident in a very strange place. But yes, it could also be Malaysian maintenance, which will result in the pilot being blamed for having no plans after landing.

---------- Post added at 06:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:24 PM ----------

The first pictures of the debris look like the aircraft broke already apart in the air.

Still, thats no automatic sign of it being shot down. It could be terrorism as well, or plain aerodynamic forces. The aircraft that caught fire over Saudi-Arabia also broke apart already in the air, after the structural integrity failed.

 

[Cosmic Penguin]

The problem is of course how could an investigation start in such a war zone right now - that in itself could escalate into political dogfights already!

 

[Matias Saibene]

Anyway this controversial accident, always lose civilians. Heads of state are comfortable in a bunker.

 

[Odahs]

There seem to be conflicting eye witness reports (which is usual for any air accident) as to whether the aircraft was in pieces or largely intact at impact.

From the one picture I have seen the debris field 'looks' remarkably contained - suggesting the aiircraft, or at least a large part of it was largely intact on impact. The debris field depicted is also thoroughly burnt out and shows part of one engine, suggesting the wing and fuel tanks were still intact at the point of impact.

I know better though than to start to speculate, just an early observation from what I have seen. It is quite possible that a large part of the plane came down at the spot I have seen pictures of, but other parts are spread along a much longer debris field.

 

[Wolf]

Reporters say debris cover an area of over 40Km! If that's the case then there is no way the Aircraft hull was intact before impact.

 

[SolarLiner]

In case this was a terrorist attack: why this plane? Malaysia has nothing to do with the conflict AFAIK. Or maybe it was a random shot at a plane? I don't think anyone would do that tho, not Russia or Ukraine at least.

 

[Urwumpe]

Four Germans have died in the attack, by current state of events.

 

[boogabooga]

When I read this, I thought they found the wreck of 370 in Ukraine and it was hidden this whole time.

But wait, this is another MAL disaster? :huh:

:facepalm:

 

[Quick_Nick]

It is reported that the plane was indeed shot down by surface-to-air missile. Still no certainty on who did it.

"The airline said the plane was carrying a total 298 people, including three infants - 283 passengers and 15 crew. It earlier said it had been carrying 295 people which did not account for the three young children.
Netherlands 154
Malaysia 43
Australia 27
Indonesia 12
United Kingdom 9
Germany 4
Belgium 4
Philippines 3
Canada 1
Unverified 41"

 

[vchamp]

There are already evidences that the aircraft was shot down by russians (or you may call them separatists with russian support). Here are recordings where they report about an aircraft shot by them and later they realize that it was a civil plane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g

P.S. Still some of you think that USA shouldn't have sacrificed space exploration and cooperation with Moscow for sanctions?

 

[boogabooga]

Be honest, you don't speak Russian (Ukranian) or read Cyrillic, do you?

Do you have any idea what was said on that video?

 

[Eraser]

Be honest, you don't speak Russian (Ukranian) or read Cyrillic, do you?

And most likely he does not know how voice of separatists commanders sounds.

 

[Artlav]

Here are approximate transcripts from that video:

Besler: The plane has just been shot down by "Miner"'s squad. It crashed near Yenakieve.
Geranin: Where are the pilots?
Besler: We went to look for them and take photos of the aircraft. It is on fire.
Geranin: How many minutes ago?
Besler: About 30 minutes ago.

Greek: Yes, major?
Major: So, the "Chernukninskie" have shot down the plane. From Chernukninskie post, the cossaks.
Greek: The plane disintegrated mid-air near Pietropavolvsk mine. We've found the first bodies (200th mean dead body). Civilians. So this certainly is a civilian plane...
Major: Is there a lot of people there?
Greek: [expletive] Pieces of wreckage were falling in the yards.
Major: What kind of plane is that?
Greek: I don't know yet. I did not see the main wreckage. I'm looking for the bodies. There are pieces of the plane's structure, seats, bodies.
Major: What of the weapons?
Greek: Absolutely none. Only civiliian stuff, medical supplies, toiletries, towels.
Major: Any documents?
Greek: Yes. Indonesian student. From Thompson University.

Militant: About this plane, shot down near Snezhnoy - Torez. Appers it's civilian plane. Fell down near Grabovo, sea of bodies, women, children. Cossacks are inspecting it.
Militant: TV is saying it looks like AN-26, ukrainian, transport, but Malaysian Airways are written on it. What was it doing on Ukraine's territory?
Nikolay Kozitsin: Transporting spies, i don't know. No need to fly here (as expletive), there is a war going on.
Militant: Understood.

 

[vchamp]

Be honest, you don't speak Russian (Ukranian) or read Cyrillic, do you?
Do you have any idea what was said on that video?

I'm from Belarus, so yes, I understand what was said in the video. Artlav's transcriptions are correct.

And most likely he does not know how voice of separatists commanders sounds.

You are right, I don't know how there voices sound. But SBU certainly knows. And this video is not the only one evidence. There were even posts by russian terrorists in social networks where they boasted the downed plane. Even your TV reported about shot down Ukrainian aircraft, that proved to be the ill-fated Boeing.

 

[Eraser]

You are right, I don't know how there voices sound. But SBU certainly knows.

SBU is not an independent party in the conflict.

And this video is not the only one evidence. There were even posts by russian terrorists in social networks where they boasted the downed plane. Even your TV reported about shot down Ukrainian aircraft, that proved to be the ill-fated Boeing.

They could boast the downed plane, thinking that it was Ukrainian military aircraft, but it does not mean that they shot him down.
Certainly separatists are the most likely cause of the accident, but other versions can not be excluded. Ukrainian authorities have already begun to publish false statements that they have no air defense in the conflict zone, and its raises some questions.

 

[Urwumpe]

That the Ukrainian authorities have no air defense in the conflict zone could actually be true. Loosing the SAMs to separatists would be far more dangerous than the small risk of Russian planes violating Ukrainian airspace again - And for that, the Ukraine also has fighter planes on patrol. Against the separatists, you don't need it.

Any sensible general would move such equipment away from the separatists, not towards them. Now the question is: Is the Ukrainian leadership so stupid to just move everything at the front line and let the separatists pick what they need?

Regarding the actions of the previous military leadership, I would say "Hell, yes, of course they are that stupid". But the new one seems to be much more intelligent, alone the recent strategic manoeuvres of the Ukrainian forces are light-years better than before.

 

[Odahs]

I've now seen more footage of the debris field. I'm convinced this aircraft hit the ground either in one piece or substantially intact.There is footage of a very clear single impact explosion as the fuel tanks went up. The falling debris was falling vertically, i.e. it was debris that was thrown up by the impact, not already separated from the aircraft before impact.

My observations do not rule out a missile hit crippling the aircraft, but it sure doesn't look like the debris field of an aircraft that exploded in mid air to me.