Modular Ship development

[jedidia]

just to have the thing not be able to leave earth orbit (because it turns out our ship design sucked)

Strange... I thought that was the fun part about it... :lol:

actually, if it turns out you're not able to leave orbit, it turns out that you probably shouldn't atempt to build a spaceship. It's very easy to calculate what a ship is able to do, and if you're not doing the maths beforehand and just junk stuff together because it sounds or looks good, it won't turn out any good anyways.

it won't be a problem adding a small calculator program to make it easier on beginers of course (there must be hundred of these out there...)

this said, I would apreciate it if an engine that needs different fuel also needs a different fuel-tank. Maybe we should start a poll about it...

 

[Urwumpe]

Start simple. Different fuel tanks can always be done in version 2.0. :lol:

Also, I would maybe limit the design possibilities a bit. Especially the orbiter autopilots will get trouble when you allow everything.

 

[jedidia]

hmmm, that's a good point... :dry:

 

[vchamp]

Thank you very much, Face, for the detailed information. I appreciate your help. I have submitted the registration to SourceForge.net and waiting for approval now.

maybe something in these lines?

http://www.konstruieren.de/CAD___VIDEOS/strebe250.jpg

or probably more like a modern ships mast? (without the spants and stuff, of course...)

http://www.momo-sailing.ch/seiten/berichte/bilder/03.04/HP_bootsvergleich/03.04_momo_mast.jpg

The second one is most close to what I was thinking about. Maybe you shall just make trusses that you like and we'll see how they look with a ship in Orbiter. Your work won't be lost in any case, since we can use unlimited number of designs.

Meanwhile, I made the module with rotating engine pod, like on Shuttle A, and many small improvements. The main problem now is with main display, which can suddenly stop to respond on mouse clicks when I shift the center of mass after integration of a module. All other clickable areas in VC continue to respond, but not main display. Any ideas why it happens?

 

[vchamp]

SourceForge approved the registration. The latest version will always be here from now: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=226025

I also created the SVN repository. All that remains is to find people, who will make use of it.

 

[jedidia]

I was a bit more occupied than I thought, but here's a first TrussDesign for a lateral truss (it's the 21m one, actually). Tell me what you like and what you don't like, I'll see if I can make it better (since there will be lots of trusses that use the same basic design it's pretty important that this design is to the liking of everyone, or at least of most). The attachement block in the middle is 1.6x1.6 meters, if anyone wants to know. As far as I could reconstruct it, that's the diameter of the attachement blocks used in the momentary version. Since meshes loose their scale when I convert them to 3ds via animator and I don't know how to measure something in animator I had to calculate it by ratios. Anyways, making it bigger or smaller is no problem at all.

So, here come the pics:

 

[jedidia]

@ vchamp:

I just pluged the thing into orbiter to see how it behaves. Adjusted the attachement points and all that, but the outcome is rather odd...

on attaching, the truss vanishes. On detaching or integrating, ctd...

let me guess: your code can assimilate meshes, but it's not yet fit to assimilate textures... ?

oh yeah, the model did not find its texture when I put it in the intermod texture folder. I had to put it in the default texture folder. I think you'll have a bit of work until textured models will work reliably. But you made it this far, I don't think this will stop you

 

[vchamp]

Trusses look good. I must get it for testing. Can I ask you to make an account on SourceForge? I will add you to the project. Then you will have to install the TortoiseSVN to post your work to the SVN repository. Since it will take some time until you will have the working SVN client, can you send me the zipped mesh of the truss with textures via email ([email protected]), so that I could check what is wrong with the code sooner?

Thanks.

 

[jedidia]

good morning...

(yeah, those time-differences...)

Alas I do not have internet-acces on my private machine. Most of the time when I'm posting I do it from work or with another conected computer in range (mostly the one of my father in law) So installing stuff is a bit tricky... I'll see what I can do.

I'll send you the thing via email anyways.

glad you like it!

 

[vchamp]

Good morning

I checked the files you sent me. Everything is ok except one thing: you specified the attachment points incorrectly. Change the first 4 lines in the attachment section of cfg file so that they all end with "0 0 1 IM". Everything then works fine. Remember that attachment point direction and rotation vectors must be orthogonal.

I like how the new truss looks in Orbiter. Good work.

 

[jedidia]

oh, it's as simple as that? :speakcool:

I didn't quite know what to do with them rotational parameters... I supposed it specified the axis around which a Mesh can be rotated without the attachment-point changing it's actual location or something... :dry:

I'll make some trusses for "backbone" next, then

One question, however: when grappling (pretty much anything of intermod) with a ummu, the ummu mostly "enters" the object, normally with his legs sticking out somewhere on the side... looks absolutely ridiculous. could that be helped somehow?

 

[jedidia]

while modeling my stuff and trying it out, I ran over some more bugs:

When the ship is docked to another ship while integrating another part, the part vanishes. It's still visible after attachment, but it vanishes on integration (sounds more like "Dis"-integration, :lol. It is there however, for it shows up when you quit orbiter and launch it again.

But, which is more nasty, when you load a state with the ship being in construction (at least one module integrated), the menu goes inactive! meaning you canot build further on the ship.

You reported problems with the Menu when you were working on the engine pods. I still have the version prior to this, so it's showing up there too. At least when the ship is docked, I'll have to do a bit more testing to see if this is also the case when it is not.

EDIT: Ok, the vanishing bug seems only occasionaly, and not related to weather the ship is docked or not.

The Menu bug however seems clearly docking related, it doesn't happen when the ship is not docked.

 

[vchamp]

I uploaded the new version to SourceForge. I made the refactoring of the code and fixed several bugs. Now it must be more stable.

The new release supports UMMu. And now it is an addon requirement. I think there won't be any more dependencies in the future.

I also made the storages for consumables (currently only in control module). The ship's mass calculation is more precise in this release.

Other small changes:
- speed of a hab wheel rotation was made changeable via cfg file;
- pressing key L modifies meshes materials so that they are visible on the night side of a planet;

The non-responsive display in VC is still a problem, but I made a workaround. If display doesn't respond on mouse clicks, press C key to fix it.

 

[jedidia]

good to hear.

I had a thought... what if we'd abandon VC's for the sake of panels? This way it would also be much less hassle doing different command modules.

The current VC will need a bit of rework anyways, since the ships menu should not be placed in the middle of the console. It's handy for putting the thing together, but it's very impracticle for flying it if you allways have to look sideways at the mfd's.

by the way, how DID you manage to have four completely working and configurable mfd's in there? I thought it is impossible to have more than two... :blink:

I think I should be through with modeling all currently existing trusses in different versions by the beginning of next week, if nothing unforeseen comes up.

 

[Woo482]

when will we have textures?

 

[jedidia]

it's comming, it's comming... :lol:

as I said, I hope to have all the trusses together 'till somewhen early next week. Next will be a first texture for existing Cargo Bays and Fuel tanks, Then I'll get to modeling some engines, then we'll need some habs and centrifuges and, and, and...

anyone who wants to give me a hand is warmly welcome!

 

[Woo482]

I can beta test for you And you should show wear the Attachment points are

 

[jedidia]

well, they're pretty obvious so far, or are they not?

As for beta testing, sure. At the beginning of the thread there's a link where you can download the latest version. It's got one of the new (texturized) trusses (the 21 meter one) posted above , so yu can get a glimpse of what's to come. Post all the bugs you can find in here (as long they're not posted allready)

edit: say... I don't want to bug you, but for a brit your english seems a bit strange... maybe you should take yourself a bit more time while writing.

 

[Woo482]

sorry I was typing very fast.

 

[vchamp]

I had a thought... what if we'd abandon VC's for the sake of panels? This way it would also be much less hassle doing different command modules.

No, I want to use VC, because I like ships with VC. I think it is much more interesting than 2D panel. Different command modules can be implemented even with VC. By the way, this is the next thing that I will do. I started this work in the latest version already. Soon I will make the other version of a control module (still very simple though) with different placement of the screens and will see if it is feasible.

by the way, how DID you manage to have four completely working and configurable mfd's in there? I thought it is impossible to have more than two... :blink:

There is absolutely nothing difficult in making more than 2 MFDs. It seems that you never flew a Space Shuttle in Orbiter.

I can beta test for you And you should show wear the Attachment points are.

Thanks, testing is very important, although I think it is too early for beta testing. And you are right, attachment points must be very well distinguishable, probably I will be able to make indicators like arrows for grapple points in some existing spacecrafts.