News Osama Bin Laden Killed (American politics discussion)

[T.Neo]

Justice involves confronting somebody with his crimes, opening old wounds maybe, but also making it finally possible to heal them, because real justice leaves no open questions, no further dangers and no hatred. Justice has no emotions, doesn't care who you are.

Revenge instead is served cold.

Yeah... I am seeing his death, more as a missed oppurtunity, than victory.

You don't go around proving your worst enemies wrong by killing them. You go around proving your worst enemies wrong by bringing them to justice. Justice is inexorably better than killing people like this, because it is the exact opposite of what makes them such bad forces of humanity.

But: The objective was to capture Osama alive. Either he defended himself and had to be neutralised as an immediate threat, or he killed himself, in a manner which unfortunately could not be prevented.

In that case, the fact that Osama is not in a US detention facility would not be the fault of Obama, or the SEALs sent to capture him, but would rather be the fault of Osama himself.

 

[Urwumpe]

I hope they do celebrate his martyr-dom.....in front of a special forces sniper scope from about 1 1/2 miles away. If we would have captured him alive that would of been a trap for the USA. Everybody would blame the US for something we did or didn't do right at his trial bla bla bla. Evil USA. With him dead.....it is what it is, he's dead. Move on to the next terrorist.

:facepalm:

Do you know where they will celebrate it? at a US mall, a US airport, maybe a major US train station. They will not celebrate it by flags, but by US blood spilled. That is the idiocy behind creating martyrs. Osama was no leader, who told everybody what to do. Osama was a figurehead. And now you made the figurehead a legend. Osama did not hide in a hole, and was dragged out alive by US soldiers. Rumors will say that he was killed when fighting imperialist US pigs who tried to come for him in the darkness of the night. There is nothing heroic behind it for the USA, you just scored a few points. Dead, Osama is much more dangerous than alive. He will become a legend. Without the flaws of having survived himself.

Never ever, in no way, assume your enemies are idiots. Even if they are, idiots can have their bright moments. It only makes you look like the bigger idiot, if they succeed.

 

[Viper1]

I'm sure that it would have been nice to some to see him paraded around and brought before a tribunal. But to those of us who lost a Friend, Husband, Wife or other close relative, no amount of parading him around would bring any comfort. Death however brings closure.
I got a call last night from one such family and we cried a recalled and felt a sense of relief and Yes, PERSONAL closure.
Untill you have a personal stake it's hard to grasp the relief felt at the news of his death.
Dead is DEAD! Done, finished, no coming back! FINAL... we will deal with whomever wants to take his place when the time comes.
For now I know one NYPD Officer's family who can sleep peacefully tonight. I know I will too!

 

[Urwumpe]

But: The objective was to capture Osama alive. Either he defended himself and had to be neutralised as an immediate threat, or he killed himself, in a manner which unfortunately could not be prevented.

It was according to reports, a complete squad of SEALs against about 4-6 people, only 4 dead people are confirmed so far, it is doubtful that the SEALs took many prisoners.

And he was reported to have been killed by a head-shot. which isn't exactly the easiest part to hit in a fight, especially if you want to capture somebody alive.

---------- Post added at 02:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:35 PM ----------

Dead is DEAD!

Old Zombie slogan: Death is just the beginning.

 

[Bonanza123d]

Maybe we can re enter the compound and get all the computers and information we can get.

 

[JEL]

If they knew he was in the house, they might have been able to get him alive. They could perhaps have surrounded the house and basically wait him out? At some point somebody would have had to go for supplies like food or water. Actually raiding the place was probably the same as not really wanting him alive.

 

[deltawing777]

:facepalm:

Do you know where they will celebrate it? at a US mall, a US airport, maybe a major US train station. They will not celebrate it by flags, but by US blood spilled. That is the idiocy behind creating martyrs. Osama was no leader, who told everybody what to do. Osama was a figurehead. And now you made the figurehead a legend. Osama did not hide in a hole, and was dragged out alive by US soldiers. Rumors will say that he was killed when fighting imperialist US pigs who tried to come for him in the darkness of the night. There is nothing heroic behind it for the USA, you just scored a few points. Dead, Osama is much more dangerous than alive. He will become a legend. Without the flaws of having survived himself.

Never ever, in no way, assume your enemies are idiots. Even if they are, idiots can have their bright moments. It only makes you look like the bigger idiot, if they succeed.

I don't agree..A us train station or mall was ,and is,has been for awhile a target. And they were already targets when Osama was alive. So if they do manage to bomb a shopping mall they were going to do it anyways reguardless if Osama is alive or dead. So like I said, he IS dead move on to next terrorist.

 

[Eli13]

If you have ever met a SEAL, you know everyone there is D-E-A-D dead. He was shot in the head after using a woman for a shield. Yes, shes dead too. They could have killed him earlier in a airstrike, but they wanted the body for proof. Osama did not give up he tryed to defend himself. So, ROE makes them have to kill him. SEALS feel no remorse about that i can tell you.

 

[fsci123]

My biggest fear is dirty bomb unleashed by a terrorist in NY still possible...

 

[Eli13]

If they knew he was in the house, they might have been able to get him alive. They could perhaps have surrounded the house and basically wait him out? At some point somebody would have had to go for supplies like food or water. Actually raiding the place was probably the same as not really wanting him alive.

He defended himself. Their ROE made them have to kill him.

 

[T.Neo]

And he was reported to have been killed by a head-shot. which isn't exactly the easiest part to hit in a fight, especially if you want to capture somebody alive.

But still possible, with increasing ease with decreasing distance.

Before we delve into conspiracyland here, it's entirely possible that a situation could have arisen, that led to the death Osama without any initial intention of him being killed.

Or he could have committed suicide, headshots are rather easy when the shooter and victim are the same person...

My biggest fear is dirty bomb unleashed by a terrorist in NY still possible...

My biggest fear is some bad bombing or hostage attack in an area that has a high density of people, such as an airport, shopping mall, or even a school. That could be a really terrible event.

From what I've heard, a radiological attack could be less damaging in terms of death or health effects, than it would be in social effects.

 

[Eli13]

But still possible, with increasing ease with decreasing distance.

Before we delve into conspiracyland here, it's entirely possible that a situation could have arisen, that led to the death Osama without any initial intention of him being killed.

Or he could have committed suicide, headshots are rather easy when the shooter and victim are the same person...

Again, the SEALS were the ones who got him in the head. There was no suicide. They killed him and his meat shield. And everyone there.

 

[Urwumpe]

If you have ever met a SEAL, you know everyone there is D-E-A-D dead. He was shot in the head after using a woman for a shield. Yes, shes dead too. They could have killed him earlier in a airstrike, but they wanted the body for proof. Osama did not give up he tryed to defend himself. So, ROE makes them have to kill him. SEALS feel no remorse about that i can tell you.

Describes the action well. And remorse is something that doesn't really describe it. There is always the feeling of having done, what needed to be done. Doubts are not a good trait among special forces, when you start to doubt, you are on the road to hell and out of duty.

 

[Eli13]

Well you can forget describing a SEAL that way.

 

[Urwumpe]

Again, the SEALS were the ones who got him in the head. There was no suicide. They killed him and his meat shield. And everyone there.

Your "Meat shield" is called wife among more civilized countries. Also, I have to agree to the statement of the Vatican about the killing of Bin Laden.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110502/ts_nm/us_binladen_vatican

 

[Ghostrider]

Whatever it may have happened, I'm not going to play monday-morning quarterback and second-guess the decisions made by the SEAL team. Operations like these may look all nice and clean when seen on paper, but in reality CQB is as brutal and fast as it can be and people have less than a split second to decide what to do. It's not a standoff, if you hesistate someone gets killed. Anyone standing or making the bad move gets stitched through or Mozambiqued.

Yes, taking him alive would have been better but it didn't happen. Tough luck. Dead Tango is better than live Tango. Will it make things harder? Maybe. Maybe not. Allow me to borrow the SEAL's book and say that there's only one easy day, and it was yesterday.

 

[Saturn V]

Maybe we can re enter the compound and get all the computers and information we can get.

No phone or internet lines were running to the compound.

My biggest question is, the United States was paying Pakistan something on the order of a biliion a year for their assistance on counter-terrorism. What did we get for our money? "We don't know where he is...he's probably dead...he wasn't well you know..."

Meanwhile, he's living in a compound within sight of one of Pakistan's largest military training facilities...

The sad, short and not-so-sweet of it is that the bearded bastard outbid the US for Pakistan to keep their mouths shut.

Having lost a close friend (and my business) to 9/11, my thanks go to the Obama administration & the NAVY Seals. Good ridance...

 

[RisingFury]

This thread is suffering from some serious trigger happy attitude...

I'm not sure that the death of one many is ever a cause for celebration, regardless of the monstrous acts he committed.

I'd prefer him being caught alive, put on trial and sentenced. But I guess the team on the ground was not in a position to safely capture him...

 

[JEL]

Can anybody present hard evidence that Osama is guilty of 911?

Not just government claims, but actual hard evidence that cannot be mistaken.

 

[Artlav]

Meanwhile, he's living in a compound within sight of one of Pakistan's largest military training facilities...

That's called hiding in plain sight. The government was not necessarily aware of it, just some corrupt or sympathetic general lending his place and keeping the mouth shut. And nobody around even dreamed that this bearded man glimpsed in that building could be THAT man.

Of course, so or not so we will never know.
Such stuff is to be declassified 99 years later, good luck living till then.