Xbox Indie Port of Orbiter

[Quick_Nick]

Kinect is equipped with 6 mics for voice commands and a web type camera as well as the sensor which is infra red that detects motion. Its how the video is captured with the kinect video chat.

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As far the indie game support for kinect you are correct but I'm leaning to the arcade which does indeed have it. However I have received the information on doing the arcade games and other than expense and proof of concept there isn't too much more hoops to jump thru. But it is considerably more expensive.

It must be something horribly prohibitive; I've never seen anything short of professional on Arcade. You almost certainly don't have the option until you do some XNA work at the very least. And I would say you would have trouble making anything but a small game on XNA, but apparently the size limit has been raised from 150MB to 500MB.
I'm not sure that the kinect's camera would have decent resolution to use a facial image as a texture on something. Anyhow, that's a ridiculously specific idea. Make some game first!

 

[mojoey]

The 360 supports flight stick and usb keyboards so controls will be close to pc setup. Biggest difference would be the right stick behaving as the mouse look. Throttle, rudder etc would actually layout alnost the same.

Yes, I know that, but how many of the 'masses' have extra peripherals besides a better headset?

 

[DarkFact]

As I said earlier and you ignored:


You need to do something with your program that would make me want to play it on a couch instead of my computer desk, and you haven't proposed anything that even remotely comes close.

I think a big hd tv and surround sound would be a nice start. Don't know about you but my tv is vastly larger than my monitor lol

---------- Post added at 03:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

:goodposting:

But i said it first!! :headbang:

I definitely agree on the topic of "not worrying about add-ons" as a good reason NOT to port orbiter.

The reason is that some of the add-ons are so deeply associated with orbiter that they have become packaged with the base install, some of the others that are not in the base install are still usually downloaded a few seconds later, such as AMSO, NSSP, Altea Aerospace vehicles and UCGO, DGIV. These all have different authors and would all have to agree to the port and release their code.

Lacking any of these add-ons would be like a port of grand turismo without any BMW's Chevy's or Lambhorginis (brands chosen at random)

I think some of the big quality checks for ANY port are "how faithful is it" and "what does it offer to make up for omissions"

A game review site might review it and say something along the lines of:

"This is actually of a port of a free simulator available online. It lacks the many of the features and vessels of the original. If you're interested in this title go download it on your pc"

whereas if you start your own universe (which can be heavily based on orbiter, even a "ripoff" if you will) then you don't have to be worried about being faithful to the franchise (franchise?) or any of the other names associated with it

Very true a lack of dg would do me in or outer planets there are too many to name. But you gotta start somewhere right? So this is my starting point. The core simulator.

 

[Urwumpe]

I think a big hd tv and surround sound would be a nice start. Don't know about you but my tv is vastly larger than my monitor lol

My large TV has no problem with the HDMI connection to my PC. My PC has a problem with using the Full-HD resolution of the TV. Need upgrade. :lol:

But who needs a 40" monitor... 2 x 23" is already pretty large if you have to sit in front of it.

 

[DarkFact]

Mine is a 1080p projector 110" diagonal screen lol. But I can pack the computer over to it but god that's a lot of unhooking and moving

 

[Cras]

yeah, FSX looks wonderful on my 60 inch LED 3D TV

 

[Hielor]

I think a big hd tv and surround sound would be a nice start. Don't know about you but my tv is vastly larger than my monitor lol

And significantly farther away from the couch, so that the monitor actually covers a similar (if not larger) angular span.

The couch also lacks a stable platform to put my joystick, which is a necessity.

Unless I have a tablet or laptop, I also don't have access to the documentation that's needed to make full use of Orbiter.

As for surround sound--what exactly is stopping someone from getting surround sound for a computer?

In any case, I'm really not sure what the point of the thread is. You don't need permission from anyone here to go make your own simulator for the Xbox, so just go make it.

 

[Cras]

I assumed this thread was for him to get the temperature of the board on his idea. Which as predicted, was not very good.

And no one is stopping you from using a table for the joystick, and using another screen or networked laptop to get access to your documentation whilst flying on a big screen TV.

 

[garyw]

I want the best possible realism. Something very much gripped for on consoles.

I don't have a console and I'll never have a console because, for me, a console is about gaming. It's not something where I can plug in a keyboard and fly in FSX or orbiter.

Most of the time I want to play in a simulator that has more button presses than I can remember so I choose FSX and Orbiter on the PC so i have the keyboard and joystick.

 

[n122vu]

But who needs a 40" monitor... 2 x 23" is already pretty large if you have to sit in front of it.

And significantly farther away from the couch, so that the monitor actually covers a similar (if not larger) angular span.

This is something I'm struggling to explain to a friend. My monitor has 1080p resolution and HDMI ports. If I sit 24-36" from it and play my PS3, it covers just about as much of my field of view as if I sit ~60" away from my 37" HDTV with the PS3 connected, and is just as clear, so what's the difference? Plus, with the audio input switcher I have, while connected to the PC monitor I can route my PS3 sound through my PC speakers, which are my old JBLPro speakers (seen here, with my old 22" monitor) that came with my first PC and have so much bass in them you'd swear there was a subwoofer connected. Technically I could use this same approach with my TV, but it would just look, well, wrong.

I echo what most everyone else is saying. Go for it. I understand trying to gauge the interest of the Orbiter community in such a project, but I honestly don't think those that play Orbiter regularly on PC are your target audience.

 

[statickid]

smaller screens are so much more bright, vivid and clear than even the best large tv's on the market. IMO the best reason to use a big screen is to share the view with more people, like sitting on a couch watching a movie with other people.

I hooked up orbiter to a big screen once, it was kind of fun, hard to read (wasn't the best tv) from the feedback i've gotten from non-orbinauts, orbiter isn't all that fun to watch someone else play. I've had a few people interested but they usually get a bit figity once i get half way to the moon or in orbit around it and say "well looks complicated" "are you doing something right now?" "how come the screen isn't changing?" "that ship is slow."

---------- Post added at 04:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:16 PM ----------

oh yeah, and "can you shoot that?"

 

[Keatah]

I have a 70" tv that is mounted in the wall that has a motorized sliding cover. A shield viewport (like a blast shield onboard Moonbase Alpha or BSG). It moves up or down slow enough with an impressive hum.

Typically after a get-together or light party I sometimes boot Orbiter into a scenario with a gas giant and a nearby space-A-station. Once that happens I dim the lights, open the viewport, and play Stratos from Jonn Serrie. I typically have the ship in slow barbecue roll to add drama and sense of heavy movement.

It's important to have Orbiter running prior to opening the viewport It's a spectacular presentation indeed! One I've worked on over a year to perfect. And to round out the experience I set up some 8" panels with MFD's going and Stellarium and a real star projector to fill the room.

I typically make an announcement that this is what it's like to be in space. Sometimes I show the instrument panel, but mostly not. And people just love rolling and pitching the ship a little while trying to make sense out of the auxiliary MFD's.

Everything needs to work right, there can be no fuss, no "wait a sec", "let me try this first" kind of thing. You either do it right and everything works, or don't do it at all.

 

[DarkFact]

smaller screens are so much more bright, vivid and clear than even the best large tv's on the market. IMO the best reason to use a big screen is to share the view with more people, like sitting on a couch watching a movie with other people.

I hooked up orbiter to a big screen once, it was kind of fun, hard to read (wasn't the best tv) from the feedback i've gotten from non-orbinauts, orbiter isn't all that fun to watch someone else play. I've had a few people interested but they usually get a bit figity once i get half way to the moon or in orbit around it and say "well looks complicated" "are you doing something right now?" "how come the screen isn't changing?" "that ship is slow."

---------- Post added at 04:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:16 PM ----------

oh yeah, and "can you shoot that?"

I'm a fan of having a large view just me though and your right orbiter is slow to watch its definately no football. I've often wondered if multiplay could be used like a pilot copilot kinda thing? I dunno about that...

---------- Post added at 08:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 PM ----------

I have a 70" tv that is mounted in the wall that has a motorized sliding cover. A shield viewport (like a blast shield onboard Moonbase Alpha or BSG). It moves up or down slow enough with an impressive hum.

Typically after a get-together or light party I sometimes boot Orbiter into a scenario with a gas giant and a nearby space-A-station. Once that happens I dim the lights, open the viewport, and play Stratos from Jonn Serrie. I typically have the ship in slow barbecue roll to add drama and sense of heavy movement.

It's important to have Orbiter running prior to opening the viewport It's a spectacular presentation indeed! One I've worked on over a year to perfect. And to round out the experience I set up some 8" panels with MFD's going and Stellarium and a real star projector to fill the room.

I typically make an announcement that this is what it's like to be in space. Sometimes I show the instrument panel, but mostly not. And people just love rolling and pitching the ship a little while trying to make sense out of the auxiliary MFD's.

Everything needs to work right, there can be no fuss, no "wait a sec", "let me try this first" kind of thing. You either do it right and everything works, or don't do it at all.

Never thought of the multipanel idea hmm I wonder if in xbox you could use smartglass for flight mfd's and instrument feedback?

---------- Post added at 08:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 PM ----------

Damn there have been some really great ideas and feedback. I am leaning to using a custom made engine as opposed to trying to port but maybe with smartglass, kinect keyboard and controllers you could have an amazing experience...

 

[Quick_Nick]

At this point, you're making yourself a simpit. An awesome simpit for sure, but, really not something that can get to the public.

 

[Keatah]

smaller screens are so much more bright, vivid and clear than even the best large tv's on the market. IMO the best reason to use a big screen is to share the view with more people, like sitting on a couch watching a movie with other people.

I hooked up orbiter to a big screen once, it was kind of fun, hard to read (wasn't the best tv) from the feedback i've gotten from non-orbinauts, orbiter isn't all that fun to watch someone else play. I've had a few people interested but they usually get a bit figity once i get half way to the moon or in orbit around it and say "well looks complicated" "are you doing something right now?" "how come the screen isn't changing?" "that ship is slow."

---------- Post added at 04:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:16 PM ----------

oh yeah, and "can you shoot that?"

@Statickid - Much of the experience of Orbiter takes place in your head. There's a few crude visual cues presented by the cockpit displays and the occasional F1/F2 external viewports. But that's about it. The whole simulation is built around celestial mechanics and orbital trajectories. Hardly the stuff of a party for the everyday layperson.

It takes a rare breed to appreciate the beauty of such a program. So don't feel bad if you get laughed at and ri...

........WHAT??? Half-way to the Moon??? You have got to be kidding me!

You mean to tell me that you made a bunch of people sit on the couch with you while you ran a mission to the moon? No wonder they are getting figity. The everyday layperson has no idea what goes in spaceflight and less so the science behind it all.

@Darkfact - If you're going to do space simulations and want the masses to enjoy it you'll need to do it Hollywood-style, with space battles and laser guns. And this is precisely why Orbiter would be a flop on the Xbox. A few nerdy enthusiasts would sing praises to high-heaven (that Orbiter had been ported), but that's, what, maybe 500 users out of millions? An obscure niche to be sure.

I should also add that my special presentation is about 10 minutes long, and I leave the simulation running as background "ambient stuff" while we discuss grown up things like who's dying or in hospital or religion or politics or sociology and psychiatry and who's getting married or why they got divorced for the 5th time.. That sort of thing.

 

[DarkFact]

At this point, you're making yourself a simpit. An awesome simpit for sure, but, really not something that can get to the public.

You know that's not a bad approach what happens when you cross sandbox game and a simulation of the highest order possible. Allowing to have a point other than bragging rights when you reach the moon or your choice planet.....hmmmm

 

[statickid]

@keatah :lol:

aye you speak the truth.

i tried to argue that it was really actually quite intense and requires spit second decision making, precision, and focus. then i referred to the numbers on the orbit and docking mfds and immediately lost the dispute (in their minds)

 

[JCARRION]

well , we got our stuff www.space-simulator.com up and running also on PS3 ,Xbox360 and Wii (besides obviously ipad/android) . Im afraid that's going to be as close as orbiter as It can be done on a console ..

But we are not sure if its even worth the cost . Everyone I talk to abt this thinks that the iPad version is a top idea , but the Xbox/PS3 is going to be a flop.

Anyway .. depending on how things go on the mobile platforms we may give it a go for PS3 -I still keep some good friends on the industry -

 

[Quick_Nick]

well , we got our stuff www.space-simulator.com up and running also on PS3 ,Xbox360 and Wii (besides obviously ipad/android) . Im afraid that's going to be as close as orbiter as It can be done on a console ..

But we are not sure if its even worth the cost . Everyone I talk to abt this thinks that the iPad version is a top idea , but the Xbox/PS3 is going to be a flop.

Anyway .. depending on how things go on the mobile platforms we may give it a go for PS3 -I still keep some good friends on the industry -

I'm still very confident that you can profit from the xbox. I'm not sure how much cost you're putting into it though.

 

[mojoey]

I'm still very confident that you can profit from the xbox. I'm not sure how much cost you're putting into it though.

I think there's 100$ USD fee for getting an XNA license (I may have that backwards), plus advertising, and eventual patches that you need to push to you user, the costs really stack up over time.

Now, I believe the turnover from MSP to USD is 80c = 1$ (could be wrong there. If you want to put up an indie game on XBL, it has to be at least 80MSP.

So, if you were to develop a game, and sold it for 400MSP (5$), and sold 1,000 'copies'. So, 400x1000=400,000$. A nice little haul. Wait, what about all those pesky fees?

Xbox 360 games written in XNA Game Studio can be submitted to the App Hub, for which premium membership is required, this costs US$99/year. All games submitted to the App Hub are subjected to peer review by other creators. If the game passes review then it is listed on Xbox Live Marketplace. Creators can set a price of 80, 240 or 400 points for their game. The creator is paid 70% of the total revenue from their game sales as a baseline. Microsoft originally planned to take an additional percentage of revenue if they provided additional marketing for a game, but this policy was rescinded in March 2009, leaving the flat rate intact regardless of promotion

So, 70% of 400k is... 280,000. 400,000-280,000=120,000. Still not bad. However, a lot of games do a lot worse than that.

So, considering you actually got 1,000 people to buy your game, what now? Do you produce DLC? Do you fix any inevitable bugs? Do you release a sequel? Considering Orbiter or any Space Sim is a large game, and encompasses a lot of material. There's not a whole lot of room for a sequel, so thats out. Bug fixes? Absolutely. Needs to be done, or you'll be ripped to shreds. DLC? Maybe. Perhaps you could release something like the Arrow, for maybe 80 MSP, and split it 50-50 with the content creator.

Tl;Dr: Stick to PC development, unless you've made the next 'Call of Duty killer' (Sorry Medal of Honor...you tried)