XR2 Public Release Candidate Testing

[Coolhand]

"Number of very angry girlfriends caused by excessive Beta Testing: 1"

LOL. make that two

regarding the heating effects, it's pretty experimental for me and doug, i just painted it as best as i could... I haven't yet tweaked the material settings in the .msh - i've hand tweaked the relevant values for all the rest of them to make them look just right in orbiter, maybe doug has already had a go at that, i thought it looked pretty good for my first try. I think dougs on the right track by not making it totally opaque, its good to see some of the ship through it... maybe 50% at its peak is actually a little too low though? Hard to say though since actual reference material of a real shuttle re-entering is somewhat difficult to come by for some reason. Of course it might look different under different lighting, so it might look a bit different at night to what it might look like in the day. If the colours off consistently, then i can always adjust the texture to compensate... post screenies of how it looks in different situations if you don't think it looks right.

 

[C3PO]

I've tried editing the UMMu crew, but it doesn't have any effect on the number of crew. Isn't the UMMu implemented yet?

BTW bailing out is quite fun, and it's not as simple as pulling an eject handle.

 

[eveningsky339]

Would it be unethical to kidnap a Beta-tester and hijack their clean XR2 installation??

 

[dbeachy1]

I've tried editing the UMMu crew, but it doesn't have any effect on the number of crew. Isn't the UMMu implemented yet?

Can please post a scenario that demonstrates the problem? I just re-tested that here and it works as expected.

 

[C3PO]

Sorry. I can change the number of crew in the scenario. I'm not sure how to use this scenario line: XRUMMU_CREW_DATA_VALID 1
[edit] I think I've figured it out [/edit]

And is there any way to specify the EMU mesh in the scenario file?

 

[yagni01]

Can you numb out the Rudder sensitivity just a little bit? It's not HUGE deal, but full rudder deflection makes it yaw a little more than I think it should.

I will test that out here and see.

I get ~10 degrees from 200m/s to mach2+. Seems about right to me.


-----Double Post Auto-Merged 3/8/2008 at 09 : 34 : 12-----

The Mk I (the 1.0 release) will use the same panels you see now. The Mk II will have a fully functional VC and probably, at the very least, some new control graphics on the 2D panels as well.

Secrets, eh? Will these new items be exposed via XRVesselCtrl? Or perhaps the long-awaited resupply functions?

 

[dbeachy1]

Sorry. I can change the number of crew in the scenario. I'm not sure how to use this scenario line: XRUMMU_CREW_DATA_VALID 1
[edit] I think I've figured it out [/edit]

And is there any way to specify the EMU mesh in the scenario file?

Regarding 'XRUMMU_CREW_DATA_VALID 1', that setting tells the XR2 that valid UMMu data exists in the scenario file. In a nutshell, you should never remove that line because otherwise the XR2 will assume the vessel was created dynamically without any UMMu data defined *or* that there is no valid UMMu data in the scenario file. In both cases the ship will create a default crew so that the ship is never empty.

I get ~10 degrees from 200m/s to mach2+. Seems about right to me.

I just tested yaw performance here as well, and I am seeing yaw rates comparable to the XR1's with no payload in the XR2. I agree it seems about right, so I will not change yaw performance.

Secrets, eh? Will these new items be exposed via XRVesselCtrl? Or perhaps the long-awaited resupply functions?

Naah, no secrets at all -- that was pure speculation on my part. It will really depend on how much time Steve has to work on new panel graphics for the Mk II, if any.

As for resupply support in XRVesselCtrl, I can work on that for the Mk II if you really want them.


-----Post Added 4/8/2008 at 02 : 42 : 33-----


OK guys, I have a shiny new Beta build ready for you: Beta-1a. XR2 Beta Team: please check your inboxes for the download link. I want to thank the team for all their excellent feedback! Here is a list of changes in this build:

* Fixed bug where tertiary HUD was showing door messages twice. [c3po]

* Fixed CTD when switching vessels [Russ et. al].

* Fixed CTD on startup when particle streams are disabled. [Chas]

* ALT-/ now steps through AF Ctrl modes 'Off -> Pitch -> On' instead of just Off -> On.

* Integrated new 'Ready for takeoff to ISS' scenario from Cale.

* Increased rotational drag slightly to fix a little twitchiness when performing small roll adjustments. [Steve]

* Reduced RCS thrust significantly; due to a typo in the code they were twice as powerful as they should have been. [Chas]

* Implemented new AF Ctrl config parameters as we discussed previously; details below:

#--------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Enable optional "dual performance" mode for AF Ctrl. If this
# setting is enabled, different AFCtrlPerformanceModifier values will be applied to
# elevator performance depending on whether AF Ctrl is set to 'Pitch' or 'On'.
#
# If you enable this setting, be sure to set AF Ctrl=Pitch when taking off
# in an atmosphere; otherwise it will be difficult to rotate the ship at takeoff.
# Then after you are airborne, set AF Ctrl=On to switch the elevators to a
# lower-performance mode for smooth handling.
#
# 0 = AF Ctrl normal mode (AFCtrlPerformanceModifier disabled)
# 1 = AF Ctrl "dual-performance" mode (AFCtrlPerformanceModifier enabled)
#
# The default setting is 0 (AFCtrlPerformanceModifier disabled).
#--------------------------------------------------------------------------
EnableAFCtrlPerformanceModifier=0

#--------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Determines the performance of the ship's elevators when "dual performance"
# AF Ctrl mode is enabled.
#
# The first number is used for 'AF Ctrl=Pitch' mode.
# The second number is 'AF Ctrl=On' mode.
#
# The default values are: 1.20 0.50 (increases elevator performance to 120%
# of normal in "Pitch" mode, decreases elevator performance to 50% of normal
# in "On" mode.)
#
# Each value is limited to between 0.2 and 5.0. 1.0 = "no change".
#
# NOTE: these values have no effect unless 'EnableAFCtrlPerformanceModifier'
# is set to '1' above.
#--------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFCtrlPerformanceModifier=1.20 0.50

* Tweaked "V1" and "Rotate" callout velocities [orwellkid]

* Added new 'EnableResupplyHatchAnimationsWhileDocked' config setting [c3po]:

#--------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Enable or disable fuel and LOX hatch animations when the ship is docked.
# This effect is only cosmetic.
#
# 0 = Fuel/LOX hatch animations disabled while docked
# 1 = Fuel/LOX hatch animations enabled while docked (default)
#--------------------------------------------------------------------------
EnableResupplyHatchAnimationsWhileDocked=1

* Tweaked hull heating algorithm (common to all XR vessels) to fix excessive hull temperatures at high dynamic pressure (i.e., low altitudes). [Steve]

* Moved SCRAM exhaust aft 2 meters to keep it from eclipsing the hull.

===============

Some things to test:

1. The new hull heating algorithm: it should be comparable during reentry to what you are used to, but it should show more realistic temperatures when you are flying at low altitudes with high dynamic pressure.

2. Please set 'EnableAFCtrlPerformanceModifier=1' in the config file to try out the new 'AFCtrlPerformanceModifier' modifiers. Feel free to experiment with different values for those to see how the ship flies, both with no payload and a heavy payload. The goal is to come up with good default values for the 'AFCtrlPerformanceModifier' setting. Remember to set 'AF Ctrl=Pitch' for takeoff.

3. Try out the new RCS thruster levels; they should be much better now.

4. You should find the ship a little less twitchy now on final approach since rotational drag was increased.

One other thing: the XR2 is so powerful that you really need to throttle back to 50% thrust right after nose-up so you have time to retract the gear without getting warning callouts.

Have fun!

 

[yagni01]

As for resupply support in XRVesselCtrl, I can work on that for the Mk II if you really want them.

Well, I have the panel designed and the spot all picked, out. So, yes. :speakcool: Woo hoo!

Seriously Doug, Steve, this little beauty is going to cause mass cancellations of XR1 orders. I hope its priced accordingly (except for my complimentary one).

 

[Coolhand]

It's priced competatively @ 17,999 Quatloos. Includes a full tank of gas and Pink Princess airfreshening furry dice - to help keep that new spaceship smell.

Doug, the new AF control settings work very well, handling feels good, it's actually difficult to damage the wings and i find a dead stick landing is a breeze with the reduced response.

I think the heavier response settings have made the roll a bit too unresponsive as we had feared so perhaps the ailerons could be boosted in strength by about 20-30%?

Nice to see the HUD back in the 3d pit, though its got those distortion problems i need to fix. There's another problem though that i also notice with the XR1, where messages about the hover doors are displayed twice and obscure the airspeed indicator. RCS response also seems better btw, again making it feel heavier, good tweak

 

[Coolhand]

I've made a mars scenario btw if anyone wants to try it, start off parked on a pad at olympus, see how she handles in the Martian atmosphere, should work fine with the current build of orulex too. Try a low level flight over olympus mons (needs the mars heightmap too) it can get pretty hairy as the dynamic pressure drops right off near the peak.

 

[dbeachy1]

I think the heavier response settings have made the roll a bit too unresponsive as we had feared so perhaps the ailerons could be boosted in strength by about 20-30%?

OK, I will tweak the aileron strength for Beta-1b.

Nice to see the HUD back in the 3d pit, though its got those distortion problems i need to fix. There's another problem though that i also notice with the XR1, where messages about the hover doors are displayed twice and obscure the airspeed indicator.

I will have to make the HUD render code aware that it's the VC HUD so it can use different coordinates for rendering. One question, though: are you still seeing hover door messages displayed twice? From trying it here I only see it display the hover door messages once on the HUD and on the tertiary HUD, as expected.

Also, for some odd reason the copilot HUD graphics are reversed (like in a mirror) -- does anyone know what can cause that? I believe it's related to the copilot's HUD glass material and 3dsmax mirroring the geometry on the left side to the right, but I don't know what property in the mesh is causing that.

I've made a mars scenario btw if anyone wants to try it, start off parked on a pad at olympus, see how she handles in the Martian atmosphere, should work fine with the current build of orulex too. Try a low level flight over olympus mons (needs the mars heightmap too) it can get pretty hairy as the dynamic pressure drops right off near the peak.

Cool!!! I will try it out tonight and integrate it into the XR2 installation.

This gives me an idea: if you guys create any cool new scenarios for the XR2, please post the scenario data here or email the data to me and I will add any good "starting scenarios" to the XR2 distribution. :speakcool:

 

[Cale]

Ok, have tried out the new beta in the "Ready to launch to ISS" scenario. Takeoff and inital climbout from the runway seems a bit smoother (though I haven't made any changes in the prefs file at this point). I followed the regular ascent profile as described for the XR1:
1. Reduced thrust immediately to ~ 70% after takeoff and banked to 135-136 degrees. Climbed at around 30 degrees, levelling off at 20km altitude, at which point my velocity was nearing mach 3.

2. Prior to takeoff, I had pre-set the attitude hold autopilot to 5 degree up pitch to be engaged once the SCRAM engines were burning.

3. Opened SCRAM doors and engaged SCRAM engines, shutting down the main engines when velocity reached mach 4.

4. Engaged Attitude Hold autopilot (5 degree up-pitch)

5. Noticed that my dynamic pressure and hull heating increased very rapidly, necessitating a rapid increase in pitch angle to lower hull temps. This seems to be the major difference in ascent profiles between the XR2 and XR1. Doug, when doing this part of the instructions in the forthcoming manual, I recommend an initial pitch of 20% to reduce the likelihood of frying in the lower atmosphere.

6. Rest of ascent proceeded normally. Shut down SCRAM engines at ~65km altitude once velocity reached mach 20, re-started main engines and maintained a 200 m/s ascent until apoapsis was 300km. This necessitated a short burn (approx. 10 seconds) at apoapsis to roughly circularize my orbit.

7. Using Richard Croy's STS Guidance MFD, I was able to align my plane with the ISS and started rendezvous maneuvers soon after. Even though it's an older MFD, it works very well with all the XR-class vessels when it comes to orbit adjustment, plane alignment and rendezvous. Doug, perhaps you may wish to take a look at the code for this MFD to see if it could be incorporated into your own autopilot. Not sure if Richard Croy is still mucking around with Orbiter, but I remember in his readme file that he said he had no problems with people tinkering with his code.

8. Will try out de-orbiting & re-entry scenarios later tonight using Mikey451's AFCS MFD to see if it still works. This provides a completely hands-off de-orbit, reentry, approach and landing profile that requires no burning of the engines (other than for de-orbiting). Will post a test scenario by no later than tomorrow if I can still get it to work.

That's it so far.

Cheers,

Cale

 

[yagni01]

Not sure what happened. I've lost rudder control in turns, even with the beta-1 version. I get 2deg/sec in a 45deg banked turn. With and without joystick. With clean install.

While I figure this out, how about going with Babylon 5 names for new crew names Jeffrey Sinclair, Susan Ivanova, John Sheridan, Lyta Alexander,. . .

 

[Overmind5000]

XR1 is a modified Delta glider transport. the XR5 is a freighter. What purpose is the Xr2's?

 

[Coolhand]

Not sure what happened. I've lost rudder control in turns, even with the beta-1 version. I get 2deg/sec in a 45deg banked turn. With and without joystick. With clean install.

While I figure this out, how about going with Babylon 5 names for new crew names Jeffrey Sinclair, Susan Ivanova, John Sheridan, Lyta Alexander,. . .

Thats weird, i've got plenty of rudder response here, you really can't get the rudder to work from your keypad even? I'd suggest you take your computer apart, re-format your hdd and start again

 

[dbeachy1]

5. Noticed that my dynamic pressure and hull heating increased very rapidly, necessitating a rapid increase in pitch angle to lower hull temps. This seems to be the major difference in ascent profiles between the XR2 and XR1. Doug, when doing this part of the instructions in the forthcoming manual, I recommend an initial pitch of 20% to reduce the likelihood of frying in the lower atmosphere.

Thanks for the details. Since the new heating algorithm will also affect new the XR1 and XR5 versions coming out, I have added a note to change the flight manuals to reflect the new ascent profile.

Not sure what happened. I've lost rudder control in turns, even with the beta-1 version. I get 2deg/sec in a 45deg banked turn. With and without joystick. With clean install.

While I figure this out, how about going with Babylon 5 names for new crew names Jeffrey Sinclair, Susan Ivanova, John Sheridan, Lyta Alexander,. . .

Hmm...that is really odd -- it is working fine for me here. Is it just rudder control that you lost, or all flight control surfaces? As a test, try setting 'EnableAFCtrlPerformanceModifier=0' in your config file. And you can experiment with different values for 'AFCtrlPerformanceModifier'.

Oh, and we'll see about the crew names...too bad I never got into B5.

XR1 is a modified Delta glider transport. the XR5 is a freighter. What purpose is the Xr2's?

I don't understand the question. Why does any Orbiter ship exist? Why does Orbiter exist? Why am I here? What is the meaning of life? Oh wait, now I'm getting all existential again...

The XR2 Ravenstar does exactly what it looks like it does: it transports a crew of up to 14 along with a small payload in comfort and style. The XR2 is a "Luxury Learjet" type of craft that also happens to be the best-d*mn-looking ship I've ever seen. I'll say it again: Steve is a freakin' genius! :beach:

If the XR1 is a Ford Mustang and the XR5 is a semi, then the XR2 is a Ferrari Testarossa. Yes, the ship flies just as fast as it looks...

=====

BTW guys, Steve came up with a new takeoff technique that he sent me via email tonight. I have been trying it out it here with the XR2 and it works great! The trick to taking off in the XR2 at a reasonable velocity is to cut your throttle to 40% when you reach rotation speed:

* With 'EnableAFCtrlPerformanceModifier=1', you can actually rotate just fine at 110 m/s in 'Pitch' mode or 160 m/s in 'On' mode.

* With 'EnableAFCtrlPerformanceModifier=0' (the default), you can rotate at about 125 m/s.

Here is how to do it:

1. Accelerate to your rotation speed (see above) and throttle down to 40% as you start to rotate.
2. Keep the throttles at 40%, raise the gear, and turn onto your ascent heading.
3. Once the gear is up, push the throttles to 100% and go!

This works great, and you don't have to worry about destroying the ship's gear. The XR2 accelerates so hard at full throttle that by the time the nose actually comes up you're going way faster than you need to be. So the trick is to throttle down to 40% right as you reach rotation speed. It's a lot of fun. Kudos to Steve for coming up with this.

 

[yagni01]

Thats weird, i've got plenty of rudder response here, you really can't get the rudder to work from your keypad even? I'd suggest you take your computer apart, re-format your hdd and start again

I'm about at that point. I can yaw, and get ~20deg, but try and turn, I just get bank.:compbash2:
Tried 1a, reverted to 1, rebooted, reinstalled orbiter, tried the modifiers. Argh. I have all the control surfaces, just can't get a coordinated turn. The really weird part is it won't turn even if I put in both roll and yaw inputs. Its not the XR2 as its happening with other vessels. BIZ-ZARE


-----Post Added 4/8/2008 at 08 : 20 : 45-----

Oh, and we'll see about the crew names...too bad I never got into B5.

Heathen.

 

[dbeachy1]

The really weird part is it won't turn even if I put in both roll and yaw inputs. Its not the XR2 as its happening with other vessels. BIZ-ZARE

Wierd...since it's happening with all Orbiter ships my first guess would be that it's a keyboard driver issue with holding down multiple keys at once, but you said it's happening with a joystick as well, right? I'm stumped on this one.

Heathen.

Yep, that would be me.

 

[yagni01]

BTW guys, Steve came up with a new takeoff technique that he sent me via email tonight. I have been trying it out it here with the XR2 and it works great! The trick to taking off in the XR2 at a reasonable velocity is to cut your throttle to 40% when you reach rotation speed

Uh - already suggested. I guess great minds think alike. :beach:


-----Post Added 4/8/2008 at 08 : 27 : 07-----

Wierd...since it's happening with all Orbiter ships my first guess would be that it's a keyboard driver issue with holding down multiple keys at once, but you said it's happening with a joystick as well, right? I'm stumped on this one.

Yep. both keyboard and joystick. I think the roll calculation circuit on the CPU went bad.


-----Post Added 4/8/2008 at 09 : 16 : 38-----


Steve, tried your Mars scenario and it puked on my desk. Orbiter log entry:

Module DeltaGlider.dll [API v.060425]
>>> ERROR: No vessel class configuration file found for:
>>> ERROR: DynamicPlanet
>>>        [C:SourceOrbiterVessel.cpp / 248]
>>> TERMINATING <<<

This was after a squeaky clean install. Ideas, anyone?

BTW, can someone give me an idea of a level turn rate at 45deg bank?

 

[Coolhand]

oops. sorry man, here have a dice to mop it up with.

There's some meshland data that shouldn't be in there... so it'll probably barf if you don't have meshland i presume.

DONT Try this one.

*edit* removed boned scenario *